Why Can't I Own Canadians?

[giggirl]

This is something my friend Peter sent to me a long time ago but I was reminded about it when reading about gay abuse on a forum thread recently. It pisses all over the whole biblical homosexuality abomination argument. Here you go:

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

[Huguenot]

There was a similar exchange in the West Wing - good ol' Bartlett :)

Ah, er yes, Youtube's a bit slow to download over here. Edited for impatience.

[HonaloochieB]

That was where I heard it Huguenot, I was wondering there for a while.

Still well said that man.

[Asset]

Fucking fantastic! I await the reply......

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22

Can't wait to see you go for Leviticus 18:23 Giggirl.

The answer is surely that as an observant orthodox Jew, Dr Laura would agree with all the above. If you are not, then you don't need to worry about it all.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

My favourite bible passage is 1 Corinthians 7 where Jesus says that sex is a gift from God, and no man or woman should deny their spouse bodily pleasure (i'm paraphrasing of course).

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Hpe you don't mind, I'm going to nick the post for facebook!

[Asset]

Personally I think it is a tad worrying that people agree with it in this day and age. 2000 yrs ago the world was a slightly different place

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> homosexuality is an abomination according to

> Leviticus 18:22

>

> Can't wait to see you go for Leviticus 18:23

> Giggirl.

>

> The answer is surely that as an observant orthodox

> Jew, Dr Laura would agree with all the above. If

> you are not, then you don't need to worry about it

> all.

[MelbourneGr]

It's like using a Satnav - a bit of common sense is required...

If an outdated Satnav tells you to turn onto a road which has a no-entry sign, do you still take the turn?

[mockney piers]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> Can't wait to see you go for Leviticus 18:23

> Giggirl.

>

He he, does that include rabbits, I'm sure that could upset quite a few ladies?

[Brendan]

Asset Wrote:

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> 2000 yrs ago the world was a slightly different place

2000 years ago Leviticus was already 1300 odd years old so probably not even that relevant to the settled, Romanised Jewish people of that time as it had been to their semi-nomadic ancestors.

It makes me think about the perpetuating idea that the older something is the more credentials it has. It is an idea that permeates all forms of humanity and shows its face in myth, religion and all forms of story telling. There is this idea that ?the ancients? were somehow wiser and more knowledgeable than us even though this goes against the obvious idea that knowledge and insight are built up as time goes on and society progresses.

Could it be that there actually was some form of greater knowledge that was lost somewhere along the way or is it just common human idiosyncrasy? Or is it just a side-effect of human consciousness being stuck in (or perhaps only receptive to) a position in time where we can only see ?backwards? but move ?forwards??

We can?t look into the future to plan what we are going to do in the past.

[mockney piers]

It is indeed a recurring theme, Hesiod wroet about how the Golden Age of men had descended into the iron age of corrupted man, and that was the 8th century BC. A time held up by the likes of TS Eliot to be a forgotten golden age of man.

Everybody likes to pick a time, the Roman republic, Late Roman antiquity, the dark ages, the high chivalric time.

Of course Brendan's correct, there was no golden age, times have always been hard, and man inhumane to man.

One of my history tutors when I first arrived at university told me never to romanticise the past, if I really wanted to know what the Medieval period was like then he suggested I watch Monty Python and the holy grail.

That's not to say things haven't been good times in the past or lessons to be learnt. There were very stable and relatively peaceful and enlightened periods in history. Pax Romana was based on slavery and huge military power, but there were periods of peace and prosperity.

Under the Umayyads of Spain and the Abbasids in the middle east there were a series of highly tolerant and enlightened rulers that meant the middle east was a great deal more peaceful than it is today.

[Jah Lush]

Confucius say: "It's all a load of old bollocks innit."

[Asset]

Asset Wrote:

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> 2000 yrs ago the world was a slightly different place

"2000 years ago Leviticus was already 1300 odd years old"

Shows how much I know about biblical matters then. That'll be old testament or summing?

[Brendan]

Genesis (the beginning), Exodus (escape from Egypt), Leviticus (the Law), Deuteronomy (can?t remember something about Duets perhaps) and Numbers (Something to do with Maths?)

They are the books attributed to Moses and form the base of the Torah and consequently are the first five books of the Christian bible.

The story goes that they were given to the Jewish people when they gathered at Mount Sinai during the exodus although historians think they were written separately, around this period and then compiled into one by the Jewish priests.

"Now write that out 100 times before next lesson or you will be sent to Sister Mary Joseph for a caning."

[Jah Lush]

What about The Sixth And Seventh Books by Toots & The Maytals? Top tune.

[clive3300]

There are lots of anomolies in even later biblical texts indicating they were written significantly more recently than when originally presumed and therefore no guarantee they represent any original idea.

E.g. the detailed description of Goliath sounds very similar to the equipment and tactics of a greek hoplite (which was the foremost heavy infantry afterthe 600s BC) however it is describing events that took place some 600 years earlier. In fact much of this text is very similar to part of the Iliad and is quite possibly borrowed!

So clearly this story was transfered as oral tradition during this gap and "sexed up" when written down. And clearly many other things could have been easily altered.

[mockney piers]

Seeing as they come from an oral tradition of a time when the Jews weren't even Monotheistic, when the worship of Yahweh was not exclusive as He stood alongside Baal of the Phoenicians (and later Carthaginians) to whom the Israelites were rather partial to a bit of sideworship themselves, and the rest of the Pantheon of mediterranean Gods, you can begin to understand that the old testament was in fact written by a whole bunch of priests many years down the line with their own agenda about who and how Jewish worship should go. Deosn't meaen the shift to montheism wasn't a radical and revolutionary one in terms of theological history.

Just because it's made up doesn't stop it from being very interesting.

Indeed their hatred of Canaanites is somewhat ironic as most evidence points to them being a canaanite people themselves and the flight from Egypt was almost actually a much much shorter flight away from Egyptian dominance of the coastal region, about 100 miles up into the mountains. The Red Sea? Hmm, perhaps a river or even just a bit of a flash flood in a mountain gulley that has become somewhat exaggerated in the subsequent telling.

[Brendan]

Are you suggesting that people can just make up stories?

[Keef]

Aggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! This is reminding me of RS A Level! (although that was on John's Gespel)

[clive3300]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> Just because it's made up doesn't stop it from

> being very interesting.

>

Agreed. I find these sorts of things quite facinating from a cultural / historical perspective, but it certainly doesnt "hang together" enough for me to base my morality on it. These apparent anomolies is what help indicate how and when it was written, and (in the case of Adam's "first wife") how it was edited.