Putting baby down sleepy but awake - how?

[EmilyPie]

I know this is supposed to be the mythical key to great sleep habits but I've never been able to do it. My first boy would just cry himself more and more awake, even from a state of lovely, calm, full tummy sleepiness. My second seems to be similar. He is only 9 weeks and leaving him like this seems mean, as well as counterproductive. How is this supposed to work? Is crying just part of the process or did your little ones just drift off quietly with smiles on their faces? Am I missing something? All advice welcome. Thank you.

[Bellenden Belle]

We had lots of other cues - a pacifier/ dummy (not to everyone's taste I know); swaddling; white noise and then shushing and patting. The gentle patting on their bottom replicates the heartbeat in the womb apparently. It was only when Buggie from this forum showed me shush/ pat that everything fell into place.

And then after not too long he just understood and a pacifier and white noise was all he needed.

[etta166]

9 weeks is very young, although some babie do settle on their own at this age in my experience most don't yet. My first 2 needed to suck their thumb to settle on their own and couldn't do this reliably until about 12 weeks. My 3rd does settle with a dummy in most circumstances, but I really find this odd after my other two children!

Try instigating a sleep schedule (i.e. a clock time, a fixed time after feeding, after 3 yawns...), or a routine if that feels right to you. Just get your baby to sleep however you normally would, but at the "right" time. Then, like Bellenden Bell said, give other sleep cues like shushing and patting, or white noise, at the "right" time. Eventually your baby will be conditioned to sleep at the time you want on their own.

Or, if you want, don't bother at all. Just carry, co-sleep, cuddle and make the most of it. I miss the fact that my older children won't suggle in and go to sleep with me.

[sillywoman]

YOur baby is too young as yet. This is something you should be looking to tackle when he is between 3 and 6 months old. Some babies are ready early, but for most that's the key timeframe to learn this skill.

[mrsps]

One of my favourite parenthood mantras is "if it's not a problem for you, it's not a problem". If youre ok with them falling asleep on you now, just go with it. I worried about this putting down awake so much - now my five month old doesn't want to fall asleep on me at all anymore and I miss the sleepy cuddles! Your little one will def come through this when they are ready so I reckon don't put yourself under too much pressure.

[EmilyPie]

Thanks everyone, that's really helpful and reassuring. I love him falling asleep on me but because my first was such a poor sleeper I'm keen to avoid the months and months of frequent night waking. Sounds like I have a bit of time yet though and will try not to get too hung up on it. Definitely need to work on sleep queues though. He isn't keen on a dummy sadly and my attempts to put him down so far tend to be accompanied by my 2yo shouting 'look mummy he's awake' or shouting that he wants to come with me from the other side of the door. Probably not that soothing! Will start a bit of a rough sleep schedule and some shush patting I reckon and see how things go.

[buggie]

Oh BB - I'd forgotten all about my practical lesson I did with you!

Am fairly sure at 9wks majority of my shush patting would be done with bugglet in my arms - gently swaddled & holding her upright to my shoulder, nuzzled into my neck & gently shushing/patting her bum until she wasn't crying/felt relaxed, would then lay her in the Moses basket (with doughnut round edge - made with rolled up blanket - as bugglet was stupidly tiny & still seemed swamped by the basket!), and continue the s/p'ing, watching for further signs of nodding off, as I saw signs of her dozing, I'd gently slow/reduce the level of shushing & how hard I was patting.

At any stage I'd be ready to go back a step - even to point of picking her up again if not happy when initially laid down, and there were even a few occasions where a v short feed/suckle was needed (growth spurts typically!!)

But, having settled +++ babies before I'd become a mum myself (babysitting from 14yrs, nursery nursing & nursing), the baby whisperer method mirrored what I'd found to work already (IIRC Tracey Hogg had also been a Paeds nurse, so interesting our experience had been the same). Consistency is most important thing. As I wasn't feeding to sleep (as a rule), hubbie would also settle her & would do the same (and loved doing it) - he was often the one who noticed signs of her settling herself a bit sooner than I would! Would recommend getting dad involved so that settling isn't always on your shoulders/reduces your stress if an ting happens & you're unable to be there yourself to settle.

Totally agree with mrsps - often tell parents I meet through work that if things aren't a problem to them that it's ok to go with them (unless their ok with giving chips to a 3mth old or leaving a 4yr old to put the knives away from the dishwasher - neither a true example from my work!!).

[EmilyPie]

Thanks buggie, that's really helpful.

[reren]

Another vote for leave this - i was able to put my son down and he'd go to sleep in moses basket by himself - but as he got older turned into a terrible sleeper! I am pretty convinced sleep comes to some children easily and others not so much...we did everything bar control crying and he continued to be pretty terrible sleeper until he hit about 2 and now is great...i think for him nothing we did would have made much difference he just had to get to the point developmentally where he could sleep thru...that said im pregnant w second and will be praying he is different / trying whole new battery of techniques once again :-)

[pilsbury]

I found the advice on this post really useful, so hopefully noone will mind if I hijack it a little to ask my own related question... My 11 wk old is getting really good at going to sleep (sometimes with my help, sometimes on his own), but during the day he always wakes up with a start 5-10 minutes later and is v difficult to calm down again. Consequently I spend the whole hour or so when I'd like him to be napping just trying to get him back to sleep. Any advice on this wise mothers? It doesn't seem to be a problem if he's in the pram or car, and at night he is fine too... I would be overjoyed if he started sleeping through overnight in the not too distant future, but I currently think his lack of decent naps during the day are stopping him from doing so....

[alieh]

Do you swaddle nice and tight? Could it be that he has that startle reflex thing where his arms and legs spring up just as he's falling into a deep sleep and it wakes him up? We were still using a velcro swaddle blanket thing at that stage which did seem to help.

[pilsbury]

I tried swaddling when he was younger but found even then he was too strong and found his way out of it... A Velcro swaddle sounds good tho, can you recall where you got it from?

[BellendenBear]

I agree that swaddling helps. I have 11 week old twins and they definitely nap for longer if they are swaddled really tight. Also white noise is useful. They nearly always get put down awake but settled (unless grandparents here who insist on rocking to sleep). If they cry I pick them up to re-settle them but then put them back down before they fall asleep.

[monniemae]

My health visitor came earlier this morning, insisted I was training my 13day old to need mummy too much, and made me leave her in a bouncy chair to cry for 30mins before admitting defeat and thrusting screaming baby into my arms then legging it.

So - I'd also like some advice :( I currently have to get the baby up after any nighttime feeds (which take hours anyway), take her downstairs, shh/pat while boubcing vigorously on birth ball, tiptoe back upstairs, sleep with her on my chest (so I can't move or fall asleep confortably). Any deviation from this results in hysterical screaming. Swaddling is met with hysterical, beserk thrashing until it's off - no matter how tight. Dummies are spat across the room.

Is this all normal and will improve gradually starting soon? If so, great! But equally am I creating a future nightmare as the hv says.... If so what can I do beyond leaving her to scream which seems utterly pointless and cruel for both of us..

[alieh]

We had a few different types but I liked these ones best (you can buy them individually lots of places online, not just as a 3 pack): http://www.mothercare.com/SwaddleMe-3-Pack-Swaddling-Wraps/374165,default,pd.html

We also had ones from JoJo Maman but they were a larger size so not as tight.

Lots of people swear by the Miracle Blankets too, which don't have velcro but some flap things that tie their arms down! Sounds a bit cruel but it seems to help them sleep in the early months?!

It's amazing if he's learning to fall asleep on his own at that age so it seems a shame to "waste" it if it's just a reflex waking him up!

[alieh]

monniemae, you poor thing! I really disagree with your HV's advice on leaving her to scream and it sounds like it didn't sit well with you either. Don't hesitate to follow your instincts even if you don't feel like you have many yet only 13 days in!

Unfortunately it sounds quite normal though utterly exhausting. Mine usually did let me put them down once in a deep sleep (they just didn't stay that way for long!) but I know lots of people spend those first weeks with them asleep on their chest. Can you somehow ease her down beside you on the bed but still with lots of body contact once she's in a deep sleep? Keep in mind this can take a good 20 mins or so - I thought the Baby Whisperer book had good information about the stages of falling asleep and what to watch for (ignore most of the rest of the book though as filled with loads of rubbish too!). There's loads of information about safe co-sleeping with a newborn and it might help you to get more sleep yourself if she's safely beside you rather than on your chest.

Have you tried white noise yet? Super loud - like the volume of a hairdryer or hoover worked best for mine! Eventually scaled back to extractor fan in kitchen, and then to an IPOD white noise playing very loud all night!

Do you have a good sling for daytime use? Sounds like she wants to be close (normal!!!) but at least with a sling you have your hands free. Loads of sling options and different ones suit different people.

[buggie]

Absolutely agast at the HV advice given to you Monniemae. Does sound like you need to come to an arrangement with bubs regarding getting to sleep though, not least as it sounds v stressful to you (which if making you tense will make bubs tense & so difficult to settle.

Def look into a white noise machine - we used this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Homedics-Lullaby-Sound-Spa-Nursery/dp/B002EWT4BI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380818493&sr=8-2&keywords=white+noise+machine+homedics

Was fab as had timer on it to set for when it should be turned off.

Might also be worth "nesting" them in the Moses basket as could be their still getting use to all the space they have now - this http://www.hellobee.com/2013/09/03/surviving-reflux-colds-angle-sleeping-and-crib-nests/

Is the best link if could find to explain it.

Try not to do things to settle her that cause you major discomfort, even if it takes a little longer initially to settle her, if you're comfy you'll be less stressed, and over time, the consistency will mean she picks up cues that it's nap time.

May also be worth getting reflux/colic ruled out - maybe try propping head end of Moses basket/crib to see if that makes a bit of difference too.

Hope some of this helps x

[cashewnut]

monniemae that sounds really tough.

I don't have any specific advice but just wanted to say that 13 days is very very young and my experience was that things change a lot a few weeks in. The problems we had were different (more to do with daytime sleep) but things started to get noticeably easier at around 8 weeks and at around about 10-12 weeks they totally transformed. That's not to say that it will be the same for you but I think a lot of newborns are in a kind of crazy chaotic state and they do come out of that.

I thought it would go on forever and would have been much more relaxed if I'd realised how quickly the really hard bit would be over.

[monniemae]

thanks - reassuring advice here. Fwiw I wasnt massively freaking out, I just mentioned to the hv that I was tired when she asked how I was, and it spiralled from there! If it's normal and I'n not making some glaring mistakes then I can def hang in there a while longer as baby gets her head around things. Thanks all.

[Bellenden Belle]

For anyone looking for a really easy-to-use swaddle this was amazing:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B004A6BEUU/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?qid=1380952314&sr=8-6&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70

Basically you just zip them in - they look a little like a slug! And there's definitely no escape!

[bluesuperted]

Wow, crazy HV, that is just such awful advice and practice, poor you and bubs having to put up with that!

Few more ideas:

The Happiest Baby on the Block technique - uses lots of the ideas mentioned above, but led to great, peaceful sleeps for our son after a couple of slightly colicky days at 2 weeks old.

Slings - at about two weeks old I started baby wearing loads in the day, I found this very freeing as could go anywhere and do anything, but baby found it even better! I think giving them the extra touch as much as you can in the day (fourth trimester) really calms them at night. Do you have a sling? Lots of recommendations on here but a stretchy wrap would be great for your baby's current age.

[pilsbury]

Hi all - I just wanted to say thank you for the swaddling advice, it seems to have worked wonders with little one, who is now napping pretty happily during the day, amen to that.

Monniemae, ditto to what everyone said above, your Hv is unbelievable! Don't draw any conclusions at that young age - best piece of advice anyone ever gave me was that everything with babies is just a stage, and that's so true. I guarantee you that in a few months or even weeks time you'll look back on these early days and wonder, why was I stressed about that, now I'm stressed about x,y,z instead :) in case it helps, something which I've also found has settled my previously rather fractious and unhappy little boy (alongside swaddling) has been a trip to lizzie the osteopath at dulwich therapy rooms and switching the formula feeds he has from normal to goats milk formula (easier to digest). Xx