Woman stabbed in Peckham last night (Lounged)

[Moos]

Edited to correct stupidities and to say since I cross-posted with about a billion people, this is a reply to Natasha.

Oh God. I have a friend who is a health visitor and nurse, who lives in Kingskerswell in Devon - an absolutely beautiful little place, but she says the local towns are rife with drinking-related violence and teenage pregnancy. Of course there's lots of both here too (sorry no stats to back it up, so this will have to stand as just an 'opinion post') but at least there are things for young people to do here, public transport to take them around, and places to go.

That said, our kids will almost certainly hang around in bus shelters just to annoy us. There's a gang of very young adults who hang out at the end of Goose Green next to Locale on fine evenings handing round bottles of wine and flirting ineptly.

[SeanMacGabhann]

As I lived in those Devon towns for 6 years, moos, I'll back that opinion up as being "on the money"

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Peckham native Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I once parked my car for work (Walworth)

NOW you are talking.I'm originally from The Walworth Road and had nearly 3 great decades there!..East Lane Market..sigh...

>

> I honestly don't feel like I live in a dangerous

> crime ridden area. There are a few alleys and

> paths I would avoid and they are the same ones I

> avoided when growing up here in the 60's. I think

> you get a very different perception of an area

> reading about it in the press than actually living

> there.

.........Absolutely PN!...I know my view of these areas is much more tolerant and accurate than people that have lived in The Country or 'burbs all their life..Still I'm very careful though..Wanted to visit someone at The Elephant the other night but with the window problem I erred on the side of caution..lol

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "regardless of points being made could I at least

> ask that Tony space out your words from the quoted

> text as It's getting very hard to tell them apart"

WILL DO!...What do you think of my reply to you timed at 9.55AM Sean?

[david_carnell]

Hmmm in my haste I seemed to have developed a habit of using words incorrectly - zenith/nadir - me/plonker.

Back on topic.....ish

The fact that you would like to return to the 60s/70s/1890s is telling. A society bound up in cultural and social conservatism where the height of rebellion was a joint and a mini-skirt. Was I around then, no. And you better believe I'm glad about it. A society where women, homosexuals and ethnic minorities where openly discriminated against; where industrial disputes crippled British industry; and the economy was a basket case. You are welcome to it.

Yeah my folks are still alive, bless 'em. Like I said, they moved from Sydenham for work rather than to escape the "hordes" of undesirables. Do they like it? I guess so, they've stayed for 30 years. They probably thought it would be a safe place to raise a family. In fact I think I was lucky to come out as (I hope) a normal chap. The place reeks of small-c conservatism. Most people who live there think pesto is exotic and look for the nearest "Enlgish-theme" pub when on holiday. Have you got the depressing, mental image yet?

As for the bollocks bit, well let me elaborate...."70% of children come from single parent families". Really? Do they? Says who? Do you have figures Tony? I hope so, because otherwise that bit would be bollocks wouldn't it? You know, made up - to support your argument.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Not a lot to be honest Tony. It's not that I disagree with everything you say - I don't.. (just most of it)

It's more to do with the fact that I'm suspicious of your motives - both on the topic itself and why you have bothered to register on here to talk about this and nothing else

As the warning of a Gumtree invasion was posted at around the same time you arrived, I'm steering clear. I may be wrong - perhaps you will move on to other, less contentious topics and reveal a different side - but for now I'm backing off

As for:

"> Some linkage here...

Where Sean?> "

The "some linkage here" sentence should be a different colour - click on it and it should take you to the article

[Tony.London Suburbs]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > The fact that you would like to return to the

> 60s/70s/1890s is telling.

The 1890's IS stretching it a tad:)

A society bound up in

> cultural and social conservatism where the height

> of rebellion was a joint and a mini-skirt. Was I

> around then, no. And you better believe I'm glad

> about it. A society where women, homosexuals and

> ethnic minorities where openly discriminated

> against;

No-one is suggesting that great strides have not been made and (hopefully) will continue to be made in that direction.

where industrial disputes crippled

> British industry; and the economy was a basket

Harold Mac. said that we had never had it so good....

What we DID have then was FREEDOM..ALLELUIA!!...No CCTV..No Nanny State...No 'elf an' Safety stopping us pretty much doing anything unless we want to be enraptured with Red Tape...Marvellous INNER London courtesy where people would alays QUEUE for a Bus...fairest system..Now its survival of the fittest!!..thats one for "equality"..Women shoved to the back in the scrum at rush hour..Very 2008!...Far less traffic and pollution...No Security Systems for Blocks as they were not needed...take your dog to the local park without worrying about the local "Staff" or "Pitbull" savaging it...people stopping and helpingcomplete strangers like me(4 times when I broke down in London..strangers helped me on my way by fixing tyres etc...)...Go to any London Football game without military-style preparation.Park nearby FOR FREE! Whoppee-Do!..Pay very little...My last Millwall Season Ticket cost ?103 for 23 games.Have CHOICE to STAND or st if I wanted to..NOT have to have a ticket in advance..Could be totally spontaneous....QPR on Tuesday..Chelsea on Wed..West Ham on Monday etc...People using Public Phone Boxes would shorten their call if someone was waiting....could actually buy KENNEDYS English Sausages(now closed-presumably thru' lack of demand!lol....Basically go where and when you wanted without having to worry.MUCH safer for the Women you mentioned!..Now they are (hopefully) not discriminated against but just are VERY wary about travelling anywhere at night on their own 1Thats progress1....Much more meddling from Local Councils who once used to just serve the Public....Car drivers used to be able to NOT sit in a congested,polluted one lane as the other (invariably) empty lne is for Buses only(Now 7/7 PM or even 24/7)...Filmed on Camera 300 times a day...its GREAT Man...Where can I join:)

As you could tell the above "rant" was spontaneous...I could think of 100 other "improvements" if I stay another 10 minutes:)

>

> Yeah my folks are still alive, bless 'em. Like I

> said, they moved from Sydenham for work rather

> than to escape the "hordes" of undesirables. Do

> they like it? I guess so, they've stayed for 30

> years. They probably thought it would be a safe

> place to raise a family. In fact I think I was

> lucky to come out as (I hope) a normal chap. The

> place reeks of small-c conservatism. Most people

> who live there think pesto is exotic and look for

> the nearest "Enlgish-theme" pub when on holiday.

> Have you got the depressing, mental image yet?

I'm delighted that I spent my first 28 years enjoying the delights of London.I agree that I would NOT want to live in the 'burbs when all the social life is in the heart of the City...getting older thats a different kettle of kippers altogether David,,,

Have they encountered many(any!!) problems in those 30 years David?

>

> As for the bollocks bit, well let me

> elaborate...."70% of children come from single

> parent families". Really? Do they? Says who? Do

> you have figures Tony? I hope so, because

> otherwise that bit would be bollocks wouldn't it?

> You know, made up - to support your argument.

From personal experience(based on 35 years) I'm struggling to get under 85/90% from Caribbean descendency...African Families direct from the Continent are much more Family-Orientated and it is nowhere near that figure.

Think I read Norwood School or was it St.Martins in Brixton was 90%.(90 NInety!)....I can only think of 2 former work colleagues and one previous g/f who were not from Single-Parents....

[bignumber5]

60s/70s... A society where women, homosexuals and ethnic minorities where openly discriminated against; where industrial disputes crippled British industry; and the economy was a basket case. You are welcome to it.

But there wouldn't have been all this mindless street crime - Ronnie and Reggie wouldn't have allowed it ;-)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not a lot to be honest Tony. ....

> It's more to do with the fact that I'm suspicious

> of your motives - both on the topic itself and why

> you have bothered to register on here to talk

> about this and nothing else

I only came on here last night(!) because I read some nonsense about The Suburbs and given that they have been fantastic for 25 years for me and my Family I signed up.Thats all Sean...

>

> As the warning of a Gumtree invasion was posted at

> around the same time you arrived, I'm steering

> clear. I may be wrong - perhaps you will move on

> to other, less contentious topics and reveal a

> different side - but for now I'm backing off

LOL....I DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT "GUMTREE" IS!!!!!..Obviously a Forum...but surely not just for Whites as that is rightly not allowed!

p.s.I gave you the details to that other Forum.I SERIOUSLY suggest that you invest some time reading thru' the multi-farius Topics and viewpoints..From your comments,thus far,it will be a real eye-opener!

See you around then...

[Huguenot]

DC, well put. You've made my day :)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

bignumber5 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 60s/70s... A society where women, homosexuals and

> ethnic minorities where openly discriminated

> against; where industrial disputes crippled

> British industry; and the economy was a basket

> case. You are welcome to it. >

> But there wouldn't have been all this mindless

> street crime - Ronnie and Reggie wouldn't have

> allowed it ;-)

All Gangsters are scum as far as I am concerned...More than happy for bullies or anyone who intimidates others or takes advantage of others to rot as ar as I'm concernd.....but its a fact (laugh as much as you want) that muggings would NOT have occurred on their "Manor"...well they would have ONE TIME...there would not have been a repetition!

60s/70s... A society where women, homosexuals and

> ethnic minorities where openly discriminated

> against; where industrial disputes crippled

> British industry; and the economy was a basket

> case. You are welcome to it. >

> But there wouldn't have been all this mindless

> street crime - Ronnie and Reggie wouldn't have

> allowed it ;-)

All Gangsters are scum as far as I am concerned...More than happy for bullies or anyone who intimidates others or takes advantage of others to rot as ar as I'm concernd.....but its a fact (laugh as much as you want) that muggings would NOT have occurred on their "Manor"...well they would have JUST ONE TIME...there would not have been a repetition!

POETIC JUSTICE INNIT?:)

Allow me to ask David and bignumber5 the same question as you mention The Krays.

Hypothetically if a similar firm came along today,made it clear they would punish severely any mugger of Women or Old Ladies in particular which would effectively mean virtually NO muggings or robberies in their Area in the future then would you rejoice or not?.If not,why not(lets assume that the muggings were not going to increase or transfer to neighbouring areas?)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

1. Tony.London dear, it took me over 8 months to work out that the " sign above where you type your entries allows you to put quotes in a box - in just two days you can seem like an oldie. Huge improvement with your spaces, but for old dears with wonky eyes like me, please try this option.

2. Just got back from Lidl opposite where the incident took place. Whatever the arguments above, it's bloody sad and pathetic to see another bunch of bouquets to mark a life wantonly taken.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Although to be fair to Tony the ["] doesn't allow for very long quotes, unless I'm doing it wrong

back on Topic - if I had to choose between living here in 1940/50 or now, I would choose NOW every singles time. I'm not oblivious to what the downsides are but everything is do-able

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Its very sad....

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Tony.London dear, it took me over 8 months

> to> > work out that the " sign above where you type

> your> > entries allows you to put quotes in a box - in

> > just two days you can seem like an oldie. Huge

> > improvement with your spaces, but for old dears

> > with wonky eyes like me, please try this

> option.> >

> > 2. Just got back from Lidl opposite where the

> > incident took place. Whatever the arguments

> above,

> > it's bloody sad and pathetic to see another

> bunch

> > of bouquets to mark a life wantonly taken.

True! Its very sad...

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Although to be fair to Tony the ["] doesn't allow

> for very long quotes, unless I'm doing it wrong

I've got confused already:)

>

> back on Topic - if I had to choose between living

> here in 1940/50 or now, I would choose NOW every

> singles time.

SO WOULD I !!!!!!....I'm not referring to the blitzed Bombed,rationed days of the austere 1940's/1950's...I'm talking about the 1960's/1970's as regards FREEDOM AND SAFETY!!!!

I'm not that old!!...

[Keef]

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rico wrote

> Can one not, for example, be against ignorance,

> racism, sexism and homophobia but still suggest

> some common sense on immigration issues

>

> bignumber5 Wrote:

> Please do...

What BN5 said (I actually agree with that particular statement from Rico, but have yet to hear anyone offering some sense on the matter).

And to Natasha & Moos, I agree with you. I have a good friend who moved out to Dorking with her husband and 2 young sons (third just arrived). As much as they love to show us the garden and the big house and all the lovely stuff there, they are basically unhappy and isolated and miss Dulwich like mad! She has told me she's doing it for the kids, so they have a better life. I can see how it would be nice to be a young kid there, but surely a teenager would be less bored hanging around those bus shelters! ;-)

[bignumber5]

double posting error!

[bignumber5]

Allow me to ask David and bignumber5 the same question as you mention The Krays.

Hypothetically if a similar firm came along today,made it clear they would punish severely any mugger of Women or Old Ladies in particular which would effectively mean virtually NO muggings or robberies in their Area in the future then would you rejoice or not?.If not,why not

I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make about gangs and gang violence.

London street violence is largely influenced by gangs on the estates and each area. Gangs of the "Crips and Bloods" variety rather than the Krays, but gangs none-the-less. And if you live on an estate dominated by a gang, there are unlikely to be any violent crimes that the gangs of the area don't know about or have a hand in, save for the odd tragic event of domestic origin, crime of passion etc etc.

That IS what the Krays did, they were just one very hard gang with a very large patch, reigning supreme. The fact that they were white Londoners who wore suits, got photographed by David Bailey and loved their mum should not excuse their wanton savagery in anyones eyes.

No, I would not rejoice if one gang of thugs got so powerful that they could make such promises. That would be organised crime. If I wanted to live under that particular type of rule, I'd move to Chicago and get to know those nice Sicilian fellas - far more stylish ;-)

[NatashaD]

Tony, please stop doing those mammoth cut and paste jobs. Really annoying as has been said, and your points get lost within them.

Glad it's not just me who is happy staying in the Dulwich area, Moos and Keef! I would be so bored living somewhere like Dorking Yawn. I don't buy this 'it's for the kids'. Surely if the parents are bored and miserable, so are the kids. However, on the occasion London living annoys me e.g. getting from A to B, I can happily say I am never 'bored'.

[missd]

i think that would be my worst nightmare - moving to the suburbs. i love ED becuase it's 10 min on the train from central london. i like that proximity to a major city centre and think i would alwways need that -hence the idea of moving overseas rather than just out of London. i do love London and don't think i could live anywhere else in the UK, but i do have my problems wiht it.

what i would hate to do (and i'm not saying it's wrong or right - it's just not for me) is to be sitting on a train for 30 minutes from LB to a suburb both ways every day. it's not what i want.

i like the idea of being in a smaller city than london i think -maybe sydney or vancouver - somewhere that i feel my kids will have a better life, access to more free activities like beaches, mountains, activities that they can do that are not restricted by bad weather (ok not this week in london -it's been gorgeous!) and where i can live somewhere that is a 10 minute ride to the centre of that city, but where i feel safe - i lived in such a place, and i was amazed. being back here, i compare where i'm living now to where i was before, and in terms of my day-to-day life i wonder whether i should go back.

my reasons for moving out of london and overseas (not to the suburbs) have a fair amount to do with the crime (and increase that i feel that i've seen) and the problems i think my kids could face growing up here, but also to do wiht other things like weather and access to beautiful natural areas which are probably only likely in a smaller city. it would be hash of me to blame London for not having what i want in this respect!!!

i don't think that crime is any less prevalent anywhere else -there is always some everywhere, i guess i don't like the fact that i open the paper every day and there's yet another story about someone being shot/stabbed/robbed/murdered etc. it's really depressing - maybe it's just being reported more, i'm not sure, but it just seems to be more 'in your face' so to speak and i certainly didnt notice that level of crime when living overseas.

[NatashaD]

agree with much of what you say there MissD.

[SeanMacGabhann]

There are plenty of London-dwellers who probably think ED itself is a suburb, but like Moos, Keef, NatashaD (who I still suspect might be Spangles.. ;-) ) and others I have never been happier than living here and can't envisage moving elsewhere

If I do move it would be for economic reasons - needing more space and not being able to afford it. And if it was to remain in the UK but not be ableto stay in London I would rather move to somewhere like Bristol, Sheffield, Edinburgh - all with well-reported crime issues as well coincidentally.

We do open our papers to crime most days, but that's because that's where the money is currently at. I'm not sure what it says about the human psyce that papers which peddle fear sell more than others but there it is. If a genuine news story broke, all of these stories would be relagated to the paragraphs on page 11 (where they used to live and didn't generate as much fear)

Personally I'm taking a stand against fear and refuse to be cowed by it

[Rico]

Me too. Not fearing crime (it exists but is actually lower) not fearing terrorism (it exists but we don't have to destroy countries) and not fearing global climate change doom (it exists, we need to address it, but fear is not the way forward).

[missd]

maybe but surely every day shouldn't be a fight against fear! i mentioned earlier that i'd got punched on the train coming home on the train one night after work - i couldn't fight against that fear and i don't think my kids (when i have them) would hvae been able to either.