Neighbour from hell - advice please!

[Sue]

There is a mediation service in Southwark. Any use?

http://www.southwarkmediation.co.uk/

I agree - keep a detailed diary of every incident.

But you are lucky - you are renting. I agree, in the end moving may be the least stressful option for you.

[Penguin68]

oimissus and Penguin68 - she is not elderly. I refer to her as a miserable old bitch because she is an adult who behaves like a child

As someone in happy receipt of a freedom pass I find the use of old as a term of abuse, well, abusive, particularly when it is apparently being intended as a substitute for 'childish' (rather the opposite, I would have thought).

The creation of a fenced path for her to reach her garden, whilst clearly reducing your 'available' garden might help ('good fences make good neighbours') - in the end choosing somewhere else to live, if you can, might be a better option. At least you have sunk no equity in the property. The trade-off for you will be (based on your figures) whether not having her as an immediate neighbour is worth ?175 a month to you.

[uncleglen]

You and your boyfriend could learn musical instruments (e.g. piano) and/or singing. You would need to practise vocal/piano exercises every day and do this at a reasonable time and for a reasonable length of time (according to what your teacher tells you). A friend of mine started the piano and the neighbour complained to the council and the council backed my friend because he was not unreasonable in his behaviour. This will cost some money but it will also be therapeutic. People give pianos away regularly on the forum. Depends on how much you want to live in ED (personally I prefer Guildford!)

[BecsBex]

uncleglen - Haha! My boyfriend and I ARE singers! No joke. My practice doesn't seem to bother The Beast but we haven't tried testing her with the rumbling operatic bass. HMM! ;)

[EDLove]

Completely agree with Tommy1000. What you're experiencing sounds awful and, in my opinion, your original post showed remarkable restraint.

Why stop at singing? - I'm sure a good dose of heavy metal or perhaps some dubstep would drown out the racket coming from her washing machine at 2am in the morning... ;p Ok, maybe not, but try some of the options mentioned in Tommy1000's post before being pushed out by this horrible woman.

Best of luck!

[DovertheRoad]

Hmmm. Just wondering if perhaps you're rent is still at a good price for that reason? Perhaps the previous tenant had similar issues? Or the landlord used to live in your flat and moved out because of it....not pleasant.

Just be glad that you're not BUYING the flat. Its impossible to get a true view of neighbours before spending ?250k + and yet they can ruin everything. I'm with Straferjack and Jeremy. It might hurt but I'd move. I hear Forest Hill is the land of dreams!

[the_gamechanger]

Doesn't it affect the sale of a property if the seller has to declare that they have had a dispute with a neighbour? I thought that type of thing had to be declared when a property is sold? If so, perhaps suggest this to your landlord and ask him/her to soundproof your flat if possible to avoid this

Maybe do that, and then as has been said already perhaps put rotting fish etc through her letterbox the next time she goes away for 2 months

[Tommy1000]

gamechanger is right - legally speaking you're required to disclose to your prospective buyer any disputes with neighbours. The potential pitfalls with this are that the landlord might not be planning on selling any time soon (so won't care) or, even if they are, be happy to lie and not disclose the information.

If, however, they are planning to sell in the next few years then it might help the OP insofar as the landlord either pays for soundproofing or - to try and avoid having to pay - engages and tries to do something about the problems. They should be motivated to do something really as they may either lose a tenant over it or never get piece and quiet for the complaints.

The kind of behaviour described is (you would think) unlikely to stop should the OP move out and a new tenant move in.

[DovertheRoad]

Agreed. It should be equally worrying for the landlord.

Soundproofing I dont think is an option here. It will require taking down your ceiling, creating a false lowered ceiling or lifting up her floor. None of these are attractive options.

In my case, in a converted Victorian block, I offered to pay half of any new flooring costs (within reason) to the owner above which included soundproofing and new solid timber floor. It would have cost me ?1500 but solved it. They were so taken aback with this offer that they did something simple but better. They agreed to always take their shoes off in the house and it pretty much solved it. They were reasonable peeps though.

[Huggers]

naked sunbathing may put her off the garden visits.

[reeko]

I had a similar situation with neighbours downstairs. They thought nothing of having live mcing at 2 am on a Tuesday full blast. she was also very aggressive. Her partner was more reasonable, but as I owned the flat I had to stay put. it went on for three years until they moved out. I contacted the landlord, she didn't give a stuff, I tried to reason with them, it would work for a while but things would soon get worse, I got the council involved, they weren't that helpful. I don't think I got a good night's sleep in three years. It all ended very badly, with social services intervening as there was a child in the flat and it was a complete dump. If you live beside unreasonable people, your situation will only substantially improve if you move out or they do. It's not fair, unless she is a council tenant, you have no way of putting pressure on her.

[RoLo1]

I could have written the original post myself. Had a woman below me hellbent on making her presence felt - would leave radio blasting all night, slam doors at night too, and for whatever reason couldn't engage in a conversation, would leave aggressive notes. In the first few months after i moved in, when I responded by note (she refused to open her door to me) she tore up my letter and put it through my letterbox, and returned every letter since unopened. We unfortunately owned our place so couldn't move, this went on for years. We did contact the local police and logged stuff, and eventually it was solved as she sold up, so we were no longer in a position where we would need to declare a 'dispute' when selling.

As much as you may love your flat, it's no longer the haven you wanted, you can move in a few months with relative ease. I get the sense that you want to 'win', and while I can understand that as it's galling to feel you have no rights to your home, really what will you 'win'? - she is unbalanced and it's a rented home so you will likely move sooner than her...

We initially found ourselves whispering and tiptoeing but we just gave up and would even occasionally put a late night wash on ourselves. It did make us cautious when moving into the next property, so I have no doubt you will be the same - and you will cherish the freedom of no longer having a little gremlin on your shoulder and being able to truly relax! If I was you I wouldn't bother fighting it, have a look at what's on the market locally, you won't look back!

[Girl82]

Hi BecsBex - I'm so sorry to hear about your neighbour - sounds truly awful :( Is she a council tenant? Or does she rent/own the place?

[BecsBex]

Girl82 - She claims to be the legal owner and I did purchase some information from the Land Registry office to find out whether this is true. She is listed as the owner on there. If she were a council tenant, would it be her name or council info listed as the owner on the land registry document? I ask because when we were having a dispute over the shared access gate, she was blustering about calling the council to come and do something about it (the broken gate). I don't understand why she'd go to Southwark to have her gate fixed if she were the owner of the flat... Also, she hangs old bed sheets up in place of curtains. My boyfriend is of the opinion that if she had enough money to buy a flat then she'd have enough money for curtains, but I realise this isn't a solid argument in determining whether she is a council tenant or an owner. She might just really like those manky old bed sheets.

[Carrie]

If she is shown on the land registry title then she owns the flat. the council would retain some repairing responsibilities as freeholders.

[BecsBex]

Gutted.

[tfwsoll]

I am sorry that you are having a rough time with your neighbour - despite dealing with neighbour disputes for a number of years, I still can't resolve my own!

However unreasonable your downstairs neighbour's behaviour seems, she will have a reason (in her mind) why she is behaving this way. If she has a personality disorder it may be something you and I might consider off beam but to her it will justify her behaviour. I have dealt with situations where the placing of a piece of garden furniture lead to a serious neighbour dispute, so don't underestimate how seriously someone can take even the most innocent actions. It may even be that her dispute is with the previous tenant or owner.

You can speak to your landlord or the agent but I am not sure what they can do as much of what you have described is inconsiderate or odd behaviour. If you are friendly with your neighbour you can usually sort this kind of problem out by speaking to them but (as I know in my own circumstances) if you aren't, it doesn't matter who speaks to them, the problem will continue and may get worse.

I would caution against playing tit for tat - ie blasting out loud music - as it won't really make you feel any better and may end up escalating the situation.

You could report her to the police but she will probably deny she made the threats and unless you can prove deliberate harassment they won't want to get involved.

Others have mentioned mediation, which can work, but you would both have to agree to attend. If you haven't already, why don't you do some research into this as it sounds like the only option.

As you are renting it may be the best option to prepare yourself to move. I know there is an element of 'why should I go - I am not the problem' but there is a danger that these disputes can take over your life and end up affecting your health.

[giggirl]

tfwsoll talks a lot of sense.

It is possible that your neighbour is as mad as a box of frogs, but it is also possible that you have unintentionally done something to really piss her off and now she's gunning for you.

Basically though, what tfwsoll said above.

[L15ecr]

Everything in life is a choice...and people don't make us feel a certain way we choose to let them make us feel that way. As I see it you have 2 choices you move or rather than you try to change somebody else's behaviour you change your reaction to the way she makes you feel. Accept that this is the way the woman is, rise above it and take yourself out of this game that appears to have ensued! Your reaction of "great" in your garden made it known to her that she is getting to you and probably fuelled her fire. By letting her see that she is not getting to you she may well grow bored and next time she is in your garden invite her to join you for a cuppa!

[BecsBex]

I would agree with you that I must have done something to piss her off, except she has been absolutely revolting toward me from the MOMENT we met, before I even had a chance to "do" something. She opened the front door as I was coming out of my flat into the shared corridor to go out of the door she'd just come through, so we both entered the corridor at the same time. I'd never met or seen her before so I said something like "Oh, hello! That was good timing" and she kept storming forwards with a suitcase, didn't make eye contact with me or acknowledge me at all, and I had to flatten myself against the corridor wall so as not to be mowed down by her and her luggage. Since then I've been polite up until she started threatening my boyfriend and I. As I type this, The Witch and her partner have just left their flat. Stopped briefly to slag me off outside my door and then left after being shhh-ed by her partner.

Delightful!

[giggirl]

Oh dear. Then I really don't know what is fueling her fire and I guess it will remain a mystery.

As has been said by others, you cannot influence her behaviour and the only behaviour that you can change is your own. Just be yourself and don't be phoney. I think how you reacted in the garden was phoney but in fairness she probably caught you by surprise and that's what you came out with. Try very very hard not to let her get to you. I know that sounds tough but practice will make it easier.

Make time every day to go out into your garden. If she shows up then either say a simple "good morning" or say nothing at all. It sends a message that you're not going to hide away. There is a saying that I'm very fond of; "the best revenge is a life well-lived". It is true. Take pleasure in your garden and be seen to take pleasure. You might want to put your headphones on and listen to music whilst you're gardening. That way, if she shows up then you can smile and wave but you don't have to speak and you can have the pleasure of knowing that her insults have fallen on deaf ears.

One more thing; lots of houses in ED were converted to flats in the 80s and 90s and the conversions were done on the cheap with corners cut. In other words, soundproofing is non-existent. Don't assume that she is making noise to annoy you as the fact is that noise travels both ways. Is it possible that she has overheard you talking about her in a negative way and this has caused her bad behaviour?

I feel very sorry for the both of you. I feel sorry for you because living this way must be putting you under untolerable stress, but I also feel sorry for her because her life must be wretched, even if her problems are of her own making.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Measured and great post by GG. I have been there and its tough if you cant build a relationship. Small steps sometimes can help. Sounds this is beyond this though. Threats are unacceptable in this context imo.

[unlurked]

Depending on the nature of the verbal abuse, you could report it to the police and maybe an 'advisory' visit by them to her would be enough to curtail her behaviour. You could also soundproof in your flat but would mean losing ceiling height.

[suemar]

Hi, I have had the same problem with noise for the last 10 years, apart from the fact the the couple upstairs have 3 children- one has became a teenager so I now have to listen to his computer games to three in the morning and a load of staggering around when he is out of it. Southwark council are a complete waste of time, the only time they will come out to listen to the noise is for loud music. I have given up complaining as his only leads to more problems. Still trying to do an exchange.I think you should really think about moving for your own peace of mind, and make sure the next property you move into is not a house converted or an older type of building as these have no sound proof, the

newer builds have to have it by regulation.

Get saving and get gone!!!

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Bagsy that exchange!

suemar Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi, I have had the same problem with noise for the

> last 10 years, apart from the fact the the couple

> upstairs have 3 children- one has became a

> teenager so I now have to listen to his computer

> games to three in the morning and a load of

> staggering around when he is out of it. Southwark

> council are a complete waste of time, the only

> time they will come out to listen to the noise is

> for loud music. I have given up complaining as his

> only leads to more problems. Still trying to do an

> exchange.I think you should really think about

> moving for your own peace of mind, and make sure

> the next property you move into is not a house

> converted or an older type of building as these

> have no sound proof, the

> newer builds have to have it by regulation.

> Get saving and get gone!!!