Melbourne grove estate

[Jkartel]

Is it just me or has this place become a prison? With the local councilor using this estate as her personal lock up, fences and apple trees are all that exist since the insistence of a 'no children allowed to play' policy now in place by the council. This was a great community area where i was fortunate to grow up myself. Since the 'right to buy' was put in place by Maggie Thatch, loads of these council properties are now privately owned by singletons (that do not need 3 bedroomed homes) who have nothing better to do then share their dislike for children with the local councilor. There are much better things that could be invested in, other than ghastly railings, Apple trees and closing children's playgrounds.

[rch]

Ironically, the above post was so predictable that I posted a pre-emptive reply as far back as the 21st April. If people are going to bash me (albeit not specifically named this time) on a public forum, they should at least get their facts straight.

In the end, it was the police who put in a bid for the funding for the railings - they are going to be distributing a leaflet to the estate to explain why.

And, sadly, the Orchard has been vandalised yet AGAIN - we've lost approx FOUR HUNDRED semi-ripe apples in the past month alone.

In the meantime, here's the link to the pre-existing thread as well as the relevant text:-

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1092389

3. The Melbourne Grove Urban Orchard was planted back in 2007 as a result of a community campaign ("community action rocks, yay!") to beautify a local "grot spot" where the pavement was torn up in addition to abundant fly tipping and so much dog poo on the grass verge that the council maintenance teams couldn't cut the grass.

The Orchard consists of edible apples such as Golden Delicious, Granny Smith, and Cox which would be free for all local residents to pick and eat if they weren't vandalised every year long before the apples ripen in October.

All the trees are named after children on the local housing estate and the opening of the Orchard was marked by a community day featuring a poetry contest where the prize for the best poem was awarded with an Apple iPod (geddit?).

This project is thought to be the first community Urban Orchard in London (planted before the more well-known one in the north of the borough), it was written up in various environmental magazines and even in Time Out, but now it tends to keep a low profile due to the ongoing vandalism issues. The space is also the site of a community notice board and a plaque honouring the local victims of the bombing raids in WWII (placed there by the Dulwich Society).

Sadly, there is going to be further protective work on the area at the request of the residents and the police, which I'm sure I'll be blamed for somehow... although I will say that I think it's a shame that something that was meant to be nice for the neighbourhood is so negatively regarded, as per the comments above.

[maritap]

I myself have lived here for 32 years and I couldn't agree more..the railings are awful and everything else I have the same thoughts as yourself... Also I don't remember any consultation concerning the erection of these railings

[Jkartel]

Consultations may have been given to the few people that the local counselor associates herself with but public notices must have been placed in trees or some other obscure place as not to be seen.

Why not take those apple trees and plant them in your own garden, Apples grow and die yearly. The fact you can calculate how many have been lost is proof that you either have too much time on your hands or that you have a weird infatuation with Melbourne grove estate.

As my point stated there are many people now living on their own in 3 bedroom now privately owned ex council properties that dislike children. If it wasn't for those people making obscene claims about the local children then the prison which now stands would not be needed. As far as my local knowledge DKH estate and greendale all have far worse reputations. It seems as though Miss Hilton moved into the area and didn't like the idea of sharing a street with a council estate.

To play the role of a victim on a public forum is laughable. You stated that a post like this was predictable, but i feel that maybe it just tapped into your conscious of your true intentions for this once great community.

The police and the residents that feel the area needs be more protected clearly need to move to the country side as city living is not for them.

[KalamityKel]

rch Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In the end, it was the police who put in a bid for

> the funding for the railings - they are going to

> be distributing a leaflet to the estate to explain

> why.

>

Shouldn't this have been done before the installation? Especially if this is based on "security" as suggested by the intervention/recommendation of the police???

[buddug]

Councillor Hilton wrote: 'All the trees are named after children on the local housing estate and the opening of the Orchard was marked by a community day featuring a poetry contest where the prize for the best poem was awarded with an Apple iPod (geddit?).'

That is one of the sickest things I have read on this forum, and it could only have come from a councillor - pure Stalin-speak. All the trees named after the children, but no children allowed to play in the grounds! Beyond belief. As for the Apple iPod... Talk about rubbing their faces in it.

[rch]

The point is that it's not true that children aren't allowed to play in the grounds of the estate. Most of the residents who live in the block around the Community Garden are delighted that the garden (which is completely separate from the Orchard) has been renovated and now provides a safe haven for young children and their mothers with benches and play equipment. One summer we had arts and crafts sessions for the young children and an open day for the whole estate, but we haven't been able to get the funding to do that again.

The Orchard is a separate community project which sadly hasn't had any more funded events based there because of the vandalism issues, although it's open for anyone to go into the space as it's right on the main road (which is why it gets vandalised so easily).

And I am not privy to internal discussions between the council and the police on security measures, nor do I want to be. However, I did express my concerns about the railings and made it clear to officers that I didn't want to be blamed for their installation. But the perimeter walls are technically council property which is presumably why there doesn't need to be a consultation. To be fair, I've had several people tell me that they are pleased with the railings, though, so there are two points of view. These are mainly decorative railings, only a foot high, fixed to the walls, so it's hardly Fort Knox.

So, bear in mind that there is a lot of misinformation in the above posts. For one thing, the other posts on this forum from one of the authors indicate that they live in Peckham Rye SE15 and not at the Lytcott Grove Estate (which they don't appear to realise is the correct name for the estate).

Although they claim to have been part of the community in the past, they don't seem to realise that I have lived virtually across the street from this estate for 27 years (so I'm hardly a NIMBY) and don't actually have a garden myself. And the reason I know how many apples have been vandalised is because I went across the street and cleared them with the help of other residents after a concerned resident (who is NOT a 'singleton' I might add) on the estate called me to tell me what had happened, having also reported it to the police.

Because I live locally, I work very closely with residents on two local housing estates. After the Lytcott Community Garden was renovated, I donated a Home Office award that I won to fund a local Millwall Friday Night Football club for young people that has been going for six years now - with up to 80 youths attending every Friday Night (including some very talented residents of the Lytcott Grove Estate). I also rescued the Redthread Youth Club when it had lost its premises, which has up to 120 young people attending every Friday night as well.

So, to somehow imply that I'm against local children is thoroughly (perhaps intentionally?) misleading as I spend a large portion of my own free time fighting to help them.

On another nearby estate, I worked with the residents to build a allotment scheme on a derelict piece of land at the back of the estate and then raised funding to convert a disused laundry into a TRA hall as well as setting up a pensioners club.

[DonGee]

Jkartel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Consultations may have been given to the few

> people that the local counselor associates herself

> with but public notices must have been placed in

> trees or some other obscure place as not to be

> seen.

>

> Why not take those apple trees and plant them in

> your own garden, Apples grow and die yearly. The

> fact you can calculate how many have been lost is

> proof that you either have too much time on your

> hands or that you have a weird infatuation with

> Melbourne grove estate.

>

> As my point stated there are many people now

> living on their own in 3 bedroom now privately

> owned ex council properties that dislike

> children. If it wasn't for those people making

> obscene claims about the local children then the

> prison which now stands would not be needed. As

> far as my local knowledge DKH estate and greendale

> all have far worse reputations. It seems as though

> Miss Hilton moved into the area and didn't like

> the idea of sharing a street with a council

> estate.

>

> To play the role of a victim on a public forum is

> laughable. You stated that a post like this was

> predictable, but i feel that maybe it just tapped

> into your conscious of your true intentions for

> this once great community.

>

> The police and the residents that feel the area

> needs be more protected clearly need to move to

> the country side as city living is not for them.

great stuff - you hit the nail on the head.

[StraferJack]

"To play the role of a victim on a public forum is laughable."

is that really true?

And is it wise to listen to someone who "on a public forum" claims (more than once) that perfectly fine housing is becoming a prison?

You might want to scale back the hyperbole

[James Barber]

So if I've understood correctly...

The Police applied for funds which were granted to prioritise crime and anti social behaviour fencing at the Lytcorr Estate. Council housing felt it deserved to win this funding and then implimented it - presumably after the Tenant and Residents Association chair and committee were involved. One of the three councillors for Village ward (where the Lytcott Estate is located) has said she wasnt involved. That councillor continues to be blamed for fencing they've said wasnt down to them - and councillors arent normally bashful about claiming things were down to them!

Seems a bit obsessive.

If a resident has such a complaint then make it to all the councillors if you feel one doesnt share your view. Talk to your Residents and Tenants Assocaition chair and committee and ask why they agreed to this fencing. Ask the Police why they felt the need to apply for this funding.

Going on the forum although interesting isnt likely to get the information you saught.

[Jkartel]

At the end of the day, i came here to express an opinion and have discussions with others that have the same views, regardless of what is written in this forum, i am fully aware it will not change the circumstances.

All these councillors are over paid people with tax payers money to spend as they please and cover it with a "its good for the community" speech.

My living location is of no concern to any of these councillors. As i stated, i grew up on the Lytcott grove estate. I only referred to it as the melbourne grove estate as that was how it was referred to in previous council letters.

Good luck with making the rest of your executive decisions about railings and apple trees.

I have nothing further to say on the matter as it is pretty clear that a change would never come.

[BrandNewGuy]

Wow. Who'd be a local councillor?

[buddug]

Jkartel wrote: 'no children allowed to play' policy now in place by the council.'

And Councillor Hilton wrote: 'The point is that it's not true that children aren't allowed to play in the grounds of the estate.'

So which is it? (looks like I may have jumped in too early back there...)

[maritap]

To be honest the play area is not used that often... When it was caged in so to speak the residents on the opposite side of Lytcott Grove were'nt even given keys to enter, we were told it wasn't for that side of the road...it's a joke... Why don't they give us new kitchens or bathrooms like all the other estates are getting.... What happen to the decent homes scheme.... Twice I've had visits from contractors that even had me choose which colour kitchen I preferred

Haven't set eyes on them since and that was quite a few years ago.why don't you do something about that Robin ??

[BrandNewGuy]

Have you asked her before or are you just having a go on here?

[Jkartel]

The problem stands, Robin doesn't actually reach out or talk to the community, only a select few and I'd say 3 from the lytcott grove estate. The only thing I can see the councillors have achieved is creating a large rule book of 'do nots'

It's rather boring now

[BrandNewGuy]

Yes, it is. Have you actually spoken to your councillor about these issues? Does she refuse to speak to you?

[Jkartel]

These issues have stood for years. Now residence are no longer informed of changes, they just happen and then they have to wait for a leaflet

[keyhole]

Yes,you are right.This post sounds like me when Mrs Cruikshank arrived at East Dulwich Estate,she was not popular with the majority of residents,a very small minority.While most of us were at work,they got carried away.This woman does not represent the community at all,problems and wasted money is what we know her for,I did complain,and the T.R.A was stopped and disbanded.The press was involved.We now have a new mixed proper T.R.A,.Since when did a ball become a weapon,I feel for the kids today,some places they are not made to feel welcome where they live!Good luck mate,and can I add Robin Cruikshank told us that the children would be getting somewhere to play in the Dulwich Hospital grounds,around 7 years ago,after helping to stop us getting a small cage or net in our Estate,I applied for the cleaner,greener London campaign,they agreed the children deserved a safe place to play,we won the right,This was approx 8 years ago,still nothing for the kids,it is not fair on them.They should at least be given free memberships to all sport centre,s close to them,ie,Jags,Alleyns,you can't even play in a field,they are all private land!

[StraferJack]

Translation anyone?

Picking through the debris of arguments here, there is a lot of "poor kids" rhetoric. These kids live in one of the best cities in the world and about 100 yards from me

Without spending a bean, I take mine to myriad places every week. A place at the hospital site would be... A bonus for sure but kids aren't lacking around here.

[unlurked]

Cllr crook shank hilton defected from the conservatives I think. She also had the drains fixed outside her house I was told.

[BrandNewGuy]

First point - so what? Second point - this allegation has been aired before on this forum and turned out to be bullshit. Address the issues or don't put it on here. Incidentally I don't know the councillor nor have I voted for her. I just dislike this muck-slinging.

edited for sp

[KrackersMaracas]

Hear hear

[keyhole]

First point,I did address the issue,second point,I am speaking of facts,I wish I never had the pleasure,but unfortunately RC was not at all professional,very disappointing,.i have lived in this house for 16 years,it's always been,nice clean,tidy,,maybe 5 kids playing whilst dinner is cooking,after been in park for 6 hours,maybe 1 kid,no,it's not allowed!its outrageous,you can see your child,but so can one person from a distance,that person doesn't like it.,anyway I won't but could go on.Consideration and kindness,if only everyone had it!

[Clio731]

I live on the Lytcott Grove Estate & Robin has always been polite & helpful. She has offered her assistance on more than one occasion & fought for funding for my security doors due to anti social behaviour.

I for one think the railings around the orchard are a great idea...living here I see on a daily basis inconsiderate residents allowing their dogs to crap all over the orchard.