Grammar schools, tutoring etc

[Curmudgeon]

To be fair the system has changed since many of us were at school and the expectation is that students look round other 6th forms and colleges and apply for A levels / courses wherever they wish so you would be looking st a secondary until year 11 and not through to year 13 initially (not that they can't stay on. Just that its not a given)

[bawdy-nan]

Actually I don't think it's about the choice at a level but the 5 years before and how you arrive at a point, if you're a girl, where you think science just isn't for you.

[EDmummy]

As a science geek girl growing up in Australia I never encountered any barriers. That was a long time ago but I can only think that it's societal pressures that prevent girls pursuing a science career and not anything to do with the education system. Although in a mixed school almost half females in my leaving year went into the sciences and of those, at least 40% are in very senior positions in science. We didn't have the celebrity culture to the extent our poor children are exposed to.

Now, back to the grammar debate ...

[minder]

Bawdy-nan, I think you're right about how you arrive at a point (whether a girl or boy) and think, hey, science just isn't for you.

My now 17 year old girl achieved 9 A stars and 4 A's in her GCSEs at The Charter last year. This included A star Physics, Chemistry and Biology. Daughter wasn't really mathsy but still got an A.

She also got an A star in Geography and since then this has been her favourite subject. ICT is something she's more able in than myself (as are most teenagers) other than me on the EDF!

Mum and Dad both attended the local state comps (Kingsdale and William Penn, original site of The Charter in the middle/late 70s).

Her older brother did just as well at The Charter (now in final year at King's) and youngest in Year 10 just the same.

No extra tuition involved by the way!

[vesti]

Grammar school selectivism-

Child got C in AS (science subject) at local comp. School "advised" child, and others below a B, not to continue with subject into A level. Four (Poss five) people took that science subject into year 13 . School website "100% (science subject) students gained A's" (sic)

Know for fact similar advice given to students this year. Obviously advice may have been given based on knowledge of pupils and their needs.

Cynic in me - easy to proclaim amazing results if you eliminate pupils who may dampen scores.

Were I to have a child going to Charter 6 form, or any other sixth form, I would be asking for data on pupils leaving or "released" at end of Year 12, what subjects they had been taking and grades obtained. And - breakdown of students behind the statistics eg how many pupils in that 100% ?

[bawdy-nan]

I agree that there is a huge social pressure on girls which encourages them away from science but surely that's where education plays a part - it's about opening up possibilities. Not closing them down. In the local all girls schools it is "normal" for girls to do science whereas in the mixed (high achieving) schools it absolutely is not. If having boys around means that girls chances are diminished in this area then yes, I do think that schools have a responsibility to address it. Having a uterus doesn't mean you can't get your brain round pulleys and levers.

[Curmudgeon]

Education is about opening possibilities? And you think schools are not completely aware and work bloody hard to do this? You don't think they monitor on gender and use the information to inform teaching and learning and practice. There are many measures in place to monitor and address factors which might change accessibility in education from deprivation, ethnicity, EAL, mobility, SEN to name but a few and gender is way up there.

You won't get these issues in private or selective schools to as great an extent as there is a far more homogenous student body by their very nature but the state sector works extremely hard to open up possibilities In my experience.

[bawdy-nan]

curmudgeon, that was what I thought. I asked about it and was told "there's nothing we can do". I just don't agree with that.

[bornagain]

What curmudgeon said.

So what do you think a mixed school should do to encourage girls to take sciences? You can lead a horse to water?

[bawdy-nan]

I might appoint a champion in the school to look at the issue.

I might invite speakers into school from the organisations who are set up to do this

eg http://www.wisecampaign.org.uk/ or http://sciencegrrl.co.uk/ or http://breakthrough-stereotypes.org.uk/

I might take advantage of the resources offered by these organisations - all kinds.

I might explore and experiment with single sex science teaching.

I might try and make sure there were women on the teaching staff in science subjects.

I might arrange trips out to events and festivals.

I might look at how many girls are succeeding at science and set a target for improving that.

I might set up a science club for girls at an early stage. I might target likely candidates and give them taster sessions.

I might make connections with schools that were more successful at getting girls into science and ask them what they were doing.

I'd look at what was happening in classrooms and think about whether that was making a difference - who answers questions? who volunteers?

[bornagain]

That's an impressive list!

Have you looked at Haberdasher Askes? They are a mixed school but the pupils are taught in single sex classes. I wonder if they have more success in getting girls to take sciences?

[bawdy-nan]

We're looking all over the place. I don't even know that science is the route my daughter will take but I'd like it to be an option. I'm not attacking the Charter specifically I know its a problem for lots (most) of mixed state schools. I just find bit depressing and I don't believe there's nothing to be done about it.

On a different point - we were at the exam day for Newstead Wood yesterday (grammar in Orpington). Crikey. There must have been two sittings of at least 500 girls and some of the conversations I overheard whilst waiting to collect were extraordinary - tiger-mother-tastic. Tales of months and months and months of daily exam cribbing and nothing else.

Having done the journey by train I have to say that although its quite straightforward it does feel like a very long way to travel.

[Curmudgeon]

That's because it is a long way. And in my view, far too far for a key stage 3 or 4 child to travel, but you will hear from those who are keen on that route that they make friends on the train etc

I prefer my children home early and able to play with their local / school friends whilst benefitting from local excellent state education

[bawdy-nan]

yup - think I agree with you on that one curmudgeon

[bornagain]

Have you looked at Sydenham Girls (the state one) yet? It has a good rep, girls only and is a specialist science school to boot.

[bawdy-nan]

Yes - we're off to see it v soon and have heard good things from happy girls and parents too

[Carbonara]

Charter a powder keg of race and class? None of the good state schools in S London are any such thing these days, don't be so sensationalist!

In 2012 17.4% of Charter students were on FSM,32.3% at Harris ED. Harris ED has 24% and 17% of children with SEN and EAL respectively, compared with Charter's 7.5% and 7.6%

In comparison with other co-ed comps which are oversubscribed and have a comparable reputation, Kingsdale has 18% on FSM, 8.6% SEN and 36.8 EAL. Dunraven in Lambeth has 24.45 on FSM, 11% with SEN, 24% EAL.

So claims that Charter reflects a s London demography beyond it's actual catchment are somewhat ludicous.

I'm not saying it isn't a good school - it is!

[bornagain]

I think this is a reaction to my post. I wrote it in response to those that claimed that Charter was somehow a bastion of priviledge based on it's location. My point is that it does reflect the demography of its catchment which includes not only the luxurious houses of the village but also the estates of Camberwell.

Of course it is not a powder keg of race and class but one where children of diverse backgrounds rub shoulders harmoniously and that's why it's great school.

[minder]

When my daughter got her GCSE results The Charter were excellent in their communication and helped me to encourage her to pick Science as an A Level. She had the A star in Physics, Chemistry and Biology. Daughter chose to go with History, Geography, Psychology and Biology to study at A Level.

I respected her choice and she's happy with what she's doing now (a choice between Geography and Psychology) but she's already looking at Geography at university so you never know what happens!

There may be million pound houses directly opposite the school but a 5 minute walk away on the Sunray Estate there are still over 100 Southwark Council properties and then a short walk away you have the Denmark Hill Estate.

[bawdy-nan]

Thanks minder - that's really good to hear

[BriBri]

Back to the topic of tutors...I can recommend Emmanuel Ngwengi if you are still interested..

Emmanuel tutored my son in maths in preparation for four sets of 7+ exams and I have nothing but praise for him. I found his details on this forum. Will post a link to his details...

He was totally passionate about maths, very patient and understood how to keep a 6 year old boy switched on and motivated.

There was no way on earth I would have been able to cover the topics Emmanuel covered with him, as I just didn't have the mathematical knowledge - and didn't fancy the battle!!!

Emmanuel came over to our house at the crack of dawn (only time we could fit it in) and was always punctual and prepared.

My son was offered places at all four prep schools he applied to, and I have Emmanuel to thank for that. I highly recommend him.

[BriBri]

Don't know how to post link so here's his post from another section of the forum. Good luck and hope it helps.

Tuition for Maths and Sciences, 7+, 11+ and 13+

Posted by ngwengiemma September 27, 01:17PM

I am an experienced Maths and Science Tutor based in Dulwich with tuition slots available.

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Over the past three years I have extended my teaching profile providing private tuition in undergrad Engineering, and Maths, together with A-level, IB, and GCSE Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Biology and Chemistry. I also offer 7+, 11+, 13+ public school and Medical School entrance exam preparation as well as Oxbridge entry preparations for Physics, Mathematics and Engineering.

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[Jessie]

45 pound an hour! Blimey.

[Curmudgeon]

LOL and that's why they call it selective

[mynamehere]

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