Grammar schools, tutoring etc

[wonderwoman]

At the moment in our discussions distance is an issue as DS is concerned about using train etc to go to a "far away school" when all of his class mates are choosing the local secondary as the place to go, so bit of peer pressure there. He can't see that he will hopefully be more independent in two years time than he is now. However one option is we may move nearer to the grammar school if this works out. Can't afford to live in East Dulwich anyway. Regarding mixing with the "poor", we are the "poor", bit sick of being poor to be honest and my child being segregated in some ways because we don't live in an expensive house in East Dulwich like the other families in his year. Croydon and Bexley would be more affordable. Like every other parent I just want the best for my child, can't afford private education, bursary may be an option but there's pressure to keep up at the risk of losing it. I know from experience that it's no guarantee of success (whatever that is) in the years to come and in life generally, but at least if I've given him the opportunity...I'm keen more than anything that my child is happy wherever he goes.

Another issue or not is that I heard the Surrey or Bexley grammars are going down Acadamy route?? Went to Charter yesterday and was impressed with facilities and what it offers. Results are 100% this year but looking at more detail it's probably a quarter or less with A's and majority with C's or B's. What is that in comparision with the local grammars I wonder?

Regarding open days. We seem to have missed the Surrey school ones which are one date in July it seems, does anyone know if they schedule other dates? Contacted Wilson's who said check the website they have them next year. Not terribly helpful.. is that an indication perhaps?

[bornagain]

"Went to Charter yesterday and was impressed with facilities and what it offers. Results are 100% this year but looking at more detail it's probably a quarter or less with A's and majority with C's or B's. What is that in comparision with the local grammars I wonder?"

You would expect the grammars to have better results than a comp as their cohort is selected. You need to compare the results of the top set of Charter and other comprehensives with grammar results.

[????]

Charter has a catchement area that is small(shrinking all the time) which has hardly and houses below ?1m and mainly is DV and Herne Hill and some of the the right side of SE22....an inner city comp it is not, by most definitions

[Curmudgeon]

100%? What do you mean by that, the usual measure is 5 A to C grades including English and maths and Charter were proudly announcing their 72%

There are very good local secondaries I am often surprised at those who select an hours journey for their children, still its up to the individual I suppose

[sillywoman]

100% of Charter pupils this year who sat GCSE's got grade A*-C

???, As someone well within the catchment, not living in any of those places and with 3 very academically diverse, but happy kids there I'd have to disagree & defend it. It's quietly getting on with doing what everyone wants it to - providing a first class, non-selective, state education for local children of all abilities. And it's doing it brilliantly.

The Charter should be applauded, not denigrated. We just need another like it, that's all.

[????]

Where,s the denigration? Just pointing out that its not typical, I'd love my kids to go there. And with 3 kids in there I suspect your oldest s has been there a while...try this year,s catchment area

[bawdy-nan]

Sillywoman interested to hear that your kids are academically diverse and all happy at the charter. the impression I got was that the school was all about "success".

[bornagain]

??? - it's true that there are children from ED, DV and HH at Charter but there are many also from council estates - Dog Kennel Hill, Champion Hill estates being the largest. Its catchment to the north of the school is mainly council. In fact those that live closest I think live in council accommodation.

Given its location, its intake is as diverse as you can get in London (and prob nationwide). I'm always impressed at how relatively harmonious the school is as it could be a potential powder keg of class and race.

[bornagain]

Bawdy-nan, yes the school is all about 'success' - for children of all abilities. The support they give to students who are not of the top level academically is impressive.

[Curmudgeon]

Charter is an excellent school with a strong reputation but its FSM level seems quite low comparatively although clearly subject to change year on year

[wonderwoman]

Tend to agree with ???? with regards to catchment, the closest would appear to be from the ?m houses, just look at the roads directly opposite and surrounding the school! Yes some may come from the local estates, but as catchment may well be getting smaller this will affect the access to school of those from those local estates surely? Not sure about how "diverse" it is, during my tour at a glance seemed to be mostly white middle class pupils and staff (and visitors). In fact those doing the presentation seemed to be from this background shame they didn't choose pupils from another background to show their "diversity" but obviously I'm not sure how they were selected. No denegration of Charter at all. It does seem to be well resourced, indeed a normal comp it is not, and if they are so supportive of those low acheivers great...but then I wonder as with any school how they support those who are average or above. With so many pupils I would be concerned that mine and others get lost if more energy is focussed on hitting targets on those of below average educational attainment.

[LondonMix]

More than half of the pupils at Charter are minorities. The number on free meals is in line with the national average and the statement of special needs is higher than average. Its a relatively affluent school perhpas for SE London but its hardly a bastion of white middle class privilege

[bornagain]

If you look at the roads opposite (west) and south of the school, there are many large expensive houses. There are few houses to the back (east) of the school as they are mainly playing fields. To the north are the council estates into Camberwell. If you want to be really pedantic, the density of occupation is greater to the north as people tend to live in smaller houses/flats.

[Curmudgeon]

Well the catchment shifted to the north of the borough last year with the succesful appeal on the greendale cut through so I'm sure we will find the school demographic changing to be more in line with the community demographic so its a moot point

[wonderwoman]

Apart from catchment is also exams which I understand needs to be taken, is that then to assist in selection which will have further implications on who will be let into the school That's why I thought if DS needs to take exam he might as well sit the ones for the local grammars as well, makes no difference.

[bornagain]

No there are no examinations to be taken before being selected for Charter, not even banding tests. The only criteria after the usual looked after children, siblings etc is the distance to school. Or are you talking about local comps in general?

[Curmudgeon]

Harris and Kingsdale both have banding tests but charter don't

[tomskip]

If the number on free school meals at Charter is in line with the national average then that is not the same as being in line with the London average, or the SE London average, I wouldn't have thought?

[LondonMix]

From the Ofsted report... Like I said, it could only be considered posh by SE London standards. The description some posters gave of it though simply isn't true.

The Charter School is slightly larger than average with more boys than girls in all

year groups; the school has many more applications than places available. The

school was established by parent action in 2000. The vast majority of students live

within just over one mile of the school and most walk or cycle to school. The

proportion of students eligible for free school meals is in line with the national

average. The proportion with learning difficulties and/or disabilities is slightly above

the national average, but the proportion of these students with statements of special

educational need is high. The school?s intake is from a diverse range of cultural,

ethnic and social backgrounds with a significant proportion from disadvantaged

circumstances. About half the students are from a wide range of different minority

ethnic groups; the proportion with English as an additional language is in line with

the national average. The school became a business and enterprise college in

September 2005 and was awarded high performing specialist school status in April

2009 with science as a second specialism. The school works with a large number of

partners to support the curriculum and other aspects of its work.

[Curmudgeon]

Well this thread is about grammar school application anyway so I hope the original poster got their information, although its really not a choice I would make for mine

[bawdy-nan]

I think the big question mark for parents / children thinking about the Charter is the very low numbers of girls going on to do science at 6th form (especially) physics/ I asked about this at the open day and was told that hardly any girls went on to do physics.

This isn't unusual in the state sector where about 50% of state schools send 0 girls on to study A level physics http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19603399.

Feels like a terrible choice to make at 11 however. If you've got a clever, mathsy girl sending them to the Charter (or other mixed state schools) could just mean their choices are limited.

I found it pretty shocking I have to say and, despite reports of more positive attitudes and support in other subject areas (ie ICT), couldn't get any sense from the staff that they thought this was a problem or that there was anything to be done. There is a lot that can be done.

I'm not especially attacking the Charter here as it's clearly a problem throughout the mixed state sector but it is a worry.

[Curmudgeon]

Surely that's where the STEM of Sydenham Girls would come in to the equation?

[Smiler]

That's really sad bawdy-nan, reflects my experience in the 90s (not in london), shame hasn't changed!

[bawdy-nan]

Yes curmudgeon girls only much better for getting girls to think they are allowed to do science but odd to have to reject local mixed school (who emphasise success) in case your daughter "might" want to do physics.

[bornagain]

Hmmm? I wouldn't rule out ANY school at Year 7 for what subject(s) a child may or may not be able to do at sixth form! I would be more concerned about things in the near future, not something that may happen in 5 years time (and you can move to a different sixth form if you are not happy).

ETA as a mother of two girls, I would not put the entire blame on a school and it's culture for the lack of girls going on to do science. The general zeitgeist for the uk as a whole tends to big up the arts rather than sciences. Have you listened to Life Scientific on Radio 4? There should be more programmes like that - really inspirational!