New Laws to force motorists to consider cycle and pedestrian safety needed urgently

[Applespider]

There was some research done by TFL in 2010 about the blame in accidents involving cyclists and motorists (of every flavour) which did find that motorists were to blame in 4 out of 5 incidents - mainly SMIDSYs

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/pedal-cyclist-collisions-and-casualities-in-greater-london-sep-2011.pdf

I'm not saying that cyclists are paragons of virtue and we do (yes, I'm one too) have to be aware, cycle responsibly and in a predictable way (i.e. following the rules of the road) - and not be in such a hurry at times. It always astonishes me how many people scoot down the side of vehicles (not just large ones) when the light change is imminent.

However, there have been several accidents with HGVs where the cyclist wasn't to blame. They were already in the ASL when the driver stopped behind them and then drove over them. Yes, you could argue that if they were being truly defensive, they'd have moved forward again (out of his blind spot) when they realised he'd pulled up but that does feel like victim-blaming. Personally, I've had two close shaves with HGVs - neither of which involved me going past them (the idea gives me the willies) - both on the South Circular.

The first was on the way up to the Horniman where the bus lane ends and traffic going onto the South Circular moves into the left lane. I was in the bus lane when an HGV driver overtook me and changed lane. Fortunately, I heard the engine and realised what was happening so was able to slow down and avoid the back of the truck. I don't think the driver saw me (despite lights/high vis).

The second occasion was just outside the gate to Dulwich Park (one nearest the Grove) by a Sainsbury HGV. I know the driver saw me that time (since he moved out slightly) but he still chose to overtake on a bend with a traffic island coming up. I'd seen him coming and stayed in primary but couldn't believe when I heard his engine rev to overtake. He was mostly past me when he obviously saw the traffic island and pulled back in so quickly that his wheels nearly hit the kerb. Again, because I knew the road narrowed, I braked enough that I wasn't squished when those wheels came across but if I hadn't been local, I would have been hit and probably died.

[camberlou]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> By the way, I agree that free cycling proficiency

> classes should be available to anyone who wants to

> attend them, but this is not a substitute for

> dealing with the systemic flaws in our current

> rules and transport infastructure.

They are. You can request cycle training here:

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/roadusers/cycling/request-cycle-training.aspx

[titch juicy]

Applespider Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There was some research done by TFL in 2010 about

> the blame in accidents involving cyclists and

> motorists (of every flavour) which did find that

> motorists were to blame in 4 out of 5 incidents -

> mainly SMIDSYs

> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/pedal-cycli

> st-collisions-and-casualities-in-greater-london-se

> p-2011.pdf

>

> I'm not saying that cyclists are paragons of

> virtue and we do (yes, I'm one too) have to be

> aware, cycle responsibly and in a predictable way

> (i.e. following the rules of the road) - and not

> be in such a hurry at times. It always astonishes

> me how many people scoot down the side of vehicles

> (not just large ones) when the light change is

> imminent.

>

> However, there have been several accidents with

> HGVs where the cyclist wasn't to blame. They were

> already in the ASL when the driver stopped behind

> them and then drove over them. Yes, you could

> argue that if they were being truly defensive,

> they'd have moved forward again (out of his blind

> spot) when they realised he'd pulled up but that

> does feel like victim-blaming. Personally, I've

> had two close shaves with HGVs - neither of which

> involved me going past them (the idea gives me the

> willies) - both on the South Circular.

>

> The first was on the way up to the Horniman where

> the bus lane ends and traffic going onto the South

> Circular moves into the left lane. I was in the

> bus lane when an HGV driver overtook me and

> changed lane. Fortunately, I heard the engine and

> realised what was happening so was able to slow

> down and avoid the back of the truck. I don't

> think the driver saw me (despite lights/high

> vis).

>

> The second occasion was just outside the gate to

> Dulwich Park (one nearest the Grove) by a

> Sainsbury HGV. I know the driver saw me that time

> (since he moved out slightly) but he still chose

> to overtake on a bend with a traffic island coming

> up. I'd seen him coming and stayed in primary but

> couldn't believe when I heard his engine rev to

> overtake. He was mostly past me when he obviously

> saw the traffic island and pulled back in so

> quickly that his wheels nearly hit the kerb.

> Again, because I knew the road narrowed, I braked

> enough that I wasn't squished when those wheels

> came across but if I hadn't been local, I would

> have been hit and probably died.

The report claims that the delegation of fault is very subjective and based only on the reporting officer's view at the time. Table 11 on page 16 is quite enlightening.

I've never claimed that motorists are blameless; just that cyclists can help themselves, knowing that large vehicles have blind spots and therefore not riding down the inside at junctions.

I'd love to see an up to date version of that research. It;s pretty thorough.

[uncleglen]

This morning 2 cyclists in lycra and helmets came out of one end of a street the wrong way (their end is a one way street) on my right just as I turned left into it. Fortunately I looked because last year the same thing happened and he swerved at the last minute. It's only a matter of time because there are more cyclists on my way to work and they are taking more chances. Fortunately winter is coming and there will probably be less of them.

[henryb]

This morning on my commute I saw around 20 cars speeding, another 30 over taking too closely, one car driver deliberately try to run a cyclist off the road. Just a usual day.

[LadyDeliah]

I've had my helmet cam going for about a month but I keep forgetting to save and edit the highlights. I'm going to get on it though and do a typical week of bad driving or something like that to upload to YouTube just for the EDF massive. I may have to find out how to bleep out the expletives though.

[Twirly]

LadyD, what sort of laws would you like to see in place?

I agree that driving/cycling behaviour in London in general is bad. I am just not sure that more legislation would actually make much difference as people already flout the laws that are in place. I rarely complete a car journey without seeing someone speeding, shooting through a red light or stopping at the lights in the box for bikes (which I believe is illegal, but certainly contrary to considerate driving) amongst other things. And usually there is some cyclist behaving in a manner not conducive to their longevity (last night it was someone in dark clothing, no lights, after 8pm, on his phone and wobbling around in the middle of the road in Brockley - who then did a right turn with no signal whatsoever). I would say that penalties maybe should be increased (that 6 month sentence for the death quoted above is appalling in the extreme) if that will act as a deterrent. And maybe some of those speed cameras should be turned on more often, although people seem to slow down when they see the white lines on the road and then speed up afterwards. In France, I believe it is illegal to have a sat nav which tells you when there are speed cameras coming up. In this country, wiht the sat nav warnings, it is almost like a game: "who can beat the speed cameras". They are seen as a nuisance, not as a safety mechanism.

I also think that people get into bad driving habits (am sure that I've developed a few in the 6 years I've been driving) and aren't always aware of changes to/new legislation. I do think we would see improved driver behaviour on the roads if we all had to retake our tests (even if a slimmed down version) every 10 years.

The main problem is people's attitude. Until that changes (and I have no idea how that could be brought about) then the problem will persist, no matter what legislation is in place.

[LadyDeliah]

Twirly, you have some good suggestions.

I'd like to add cycle lane and stop box cameras with automatic fines. I'd like to see all traffic lights with a cycle go light which turns green 30 seconds / a minute before the rest of the traffic.

I'd like to see cycle lanes widened and fitted with some kind of running ridge thing like on motorways, to let drivers know they are going into the cycle lane. I would like obstructions that block cycle lanes and force us into the traffic should be removed, have a cut through for cycles, or a space on the pavement to bypass the obstruction.

On narrow / busy / dangerous roads I would like cyclists to be able to share the pavement, maybe with a dedicated cycle lane or maybe just shared space signs.

I would like all busy / dangerous junctions to look at the space sharing ideas that have been used in other countries to increase traffic flow but also allow pedestrians and cyclists to share the space more safely.

I would like laws passed to force all new road development to include equal access and priority for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike.

I would like the trains to be re-nationalised and the money poured into the rail network to go into lowering fares instead of profits for shareholders. I would like bus franchises to be controlled so that they are cheaper to use.

I would like more mixed use buildings be given planning permissionsonthat people font always have to live do far from where they work.

That'll do for now, cos I need to do done work.

Please feel free to add other suggestions.

[LadyDeliah]

Excuse the iPhone typos any spelling/grammar nazis out there!

[Jeremy]

The thing I don't get is cyclists sharing lanes with buses. Surely you're constantly having to cycle round them when they stop, or being put in danger when they pull out (often without indicating adequately). Seems completely incompatible to me. Dedicated lanes separated by raised ridges would be a game changer. Obviously it wouldn't be straightforward though... old city with narrow streets, etc...

[Applespider]

I love routes with bus lanes - and would plan an unknown journey to use roads with them. Most bus drivers (at least on the routes I cycle) are considerate to cyclists. Some pull out early but being aware of where their blind spots are so that you are cycling far enough out so that they can see you in their mirrors does help avoid that.

And there are a lot of very empty bus lanes in London so for the most part, you end up with a lovely wide lane to cycle in that cars don't encroach on for fear of being fined. Yes, you have to pull out to over-take but so long as you look around with more than 15m to go, there's generally not a problem so long as the traffic is flowing freely in the next lane.

[LadyDeliah]

I agree. Buses in bus lanes are usually far less of a problem than cars and trucks in the other lanes.

[rutavoo]

Reference more:

http://adf.ly/UqlO2

[LadyDeliah]

Interesting article in the changes made in Japan to improve cycle safety. They consider cyclists as part pedestrian part vehicle, which seems to me to be a change in thinking needed in the IK.

Courtesy of henryb:

http://cyclelondoncity.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/cycling-in-japans-cities-japan-has.html?m=1

[henryb]

I would like to see a default 20 limit across London. The conflicts between cars and cycles are much reduced if they are going similar speeds. You only really need cycle paths on 30mph+ roads.

Also I don't see why local councils can't take over the responsibility for enforcing speed limit from the police. If speeding infractions were dealt with, with the same vigour that parking violations are then there would a lot less speeders out there - especially in 20 zones. Give speed guns to traffic wardens.

[LadyDeliah]

My typos are getting worse! Typing on a iPhone without my reading glasses is not ideal. Too much guesswork involved!

[Applespider]

henry - I agree entirely. A well-policed 20mph would make all the difference to all non-motorists lives - and aside from those who drive at off-peak times in London, wouldn't really impact motorists. Isn't the average speed at rush hour around 12mph anyhow?

[northlondoner]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Twirly, you have some good suggestions.

>

> I'd like to add cycle lane and stop box cameras

> with automatic fines. I'd like to see all traffic

> lights with a cycle go light which turns green 30

> seconds / a minute before the rest of the

> traffic.

>

.

> I'd like to see cycle lanes widened and fitted

> with some kind of running ridge thing like on

> motorways, to let drivers know they are going into

> the cycle lane. I would like obstructions that

> block cycle lanes and force us into the traffic

> should be removed, have a cut through for cycles,

> or a space on the pavement to bypass the

> obstruction.

>

> On narrow / busy / dangerous roads I would like

> cyclists to be able to share the pavement, maybe

> with a dedicated cycle lane or maybe just shared

> space signs.

>

> I would like all busy / dangerous junctions to

> look at the space sharing ideas that have been

> used in other countries to increase traffic flow

> but also allow pedestrians and cyclists to share

> the space more safely.

>

> I would like laws passed to force all new road

> development to include equal access and priority

> for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike.

>

> I would like the trains to be re-nationalised and

> the money poured into the rail network to go into

> lowering fares instead of profits for

> shareholders. I would like bus franchises to be

> controlled so that they are cheaper to use.

>

> I would like more mixed use buildings be given

> planning permissionsonthat people font always have

> to live do far from where they work.

>

> That'll do for now, cos I need to do done work.

>

> Please feel free to add other

I'd like free unicycle lessons for everyone. And a special arrow that shot love into lonely people .

And a talking unicorn.

[LadyDeliah]

Northlondoner, if you think that will save lives, then why not get on your soap box and push for change. I wish you luck in your campaign.

[woodrot]

the voice of reason speaks

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420957/LIZ-JONES-Precious-moaning-tetchy--cyclists-new-women.html

[silverfox]

I'm not sure about the voice of reason - a bit harsh in my view.

But I cannot be alone in noting how fascistic this thread has become from the cycling fraternity ('force' 'make' etc).

Good point about how smelly cyclists can be though, having had to sit in meetings with them, as they enter with their front wheel in hand in case it's nicked.

Also, if they can take a shower, how they contribute to global warming by expecting their company to front the bill thus saving on their bedsit bills)

[henryb]

2/10 - back to troll school for you.

[woodrot]

austerity trolls- another sign of broken britain