Location, Location, Location - Thurs 5th Sept - East Dulwich

[NewWave]

That Time Out piece sums it up perfectly!

[El Pibe]

A little harsh bob (welcome back by the way) but point taken.

I think after 13 years here, on the rare occassion we actually get to go out at all, we tend to default to trying something new (in our remaining 5ish months) rather than back to the old favourites...familiarity and all that, rather than some sneering contempt at a gentrification process that I was obviously a part of in some small way.

[Earl Aelfheah]

The area is actually very mixed. My street has people of all kinds of background living on it and is by no means some kind of middle class ghetto. This forum sometimes paints a picture of the area which is not representative of the reality (at least the full breath and depth of it).

Individuals may be smug, but people are people - I don't see anything that marks out denizens of ED as inherently more self satisfied or obnoxious than anywhere else. It seems to me that with the arrival of some more affluent residents over the last decade or so, the areas has actually become more diverse, rather than less.

[Sue]

El Pibe Wrote:

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a gentrification process

> that I was obviously a part of in some small way.

xxxxxxxx

Oh God that's worrying.

I moved here in 1991 (AAARRRGGGHHH) because it was near woods and parks :))

Oh, and I could afford a small but three (well, two and a half) bed terraced house instead of a tiny one bed flat in Highgate, and my then OH wanted an office.

Some years later, I was told by a neighbour (in jest) "We knew when you moved in it was the beginning of the end - as soon as you put those window boxes out the front".

:)) :)) :))

[Earl Aelfheah]

Too Good To Be True Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sorry that was a misquote...

>

> "Somehow, since the millennium, East Dulwich has

> gone from being a relaxed, vaguely bohemian secret

> to a caricature of middle-class urban living. The

> online East Dulwich Forum is one of the most

> active local area forums in the country, where

> people get hot under the collar about unsightly

> advertising hoardings, noise after 10pm, and

> whether chain shops are welcome (Waitrose only, it

> seems)"

This is more a criticism of the Forum, the assumption being that it is representative of the whole community

[ElmGrove]

There's a 4 bed house for sale on Oglander Road, for 1,100,000. Eeek.

Sold via Winkworth. Another 4 bed in the same road sold recently for ?865,00.

You can subscribe to a site called OurProperty.co.uk and put in a postcode and they will send you a list of sold prices each month.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Prices for properties in SE22 are around the average for London. For zone 2 they are relatively cheap (the emphasis being on 'relatively').

[????]

Maybe I missed a bit and I was out of SE22 for a few years between the late 90s and early noughtiess...but East Dulwich a hipster/hip place, ever?...behave, there were some decent bars (although the amount of people who claim they were Inside 72 regulars on here means that it was always packed and one of the biggest bars in SELondon) rather than a quirky little box with about 20 people in there that I recall. But it's always been a bit square and 30 something?

BUT, all that said, I feel East Dulwich has lost its MOJO a bit in the last year+. I think the final (it has actually arrived) blooming of Bellenden plus Peckham's hipster creed has moved a lot of trade from SE22; Camberwell, which was always more fun, but had a poor patch when the Funky and Redstar declined is apparently buzzing again and even Forest Hill and Crystal Palace are beginning to zing a bit. I think even the NorthCross market feels a bit past its sell by date at the moment and a few of the quirkier shops are gone.....mmm.

[StraferJack]

Spot on

[*Bob*]

It is the area, or is it you?

I think it's you. And me too. I've been here in this place for longer than any other - and have always been used to moving around for one reason or another, which kept things interesting. A certain ennui after such a length of time is inevitable.

Practically: half the things I moved here for are still here. There are actually more new things that have opened up that I regularly use than there were when I arrived. But familiarity and all that. Recognise it for what it is. But also try and refresh you memory of all the things you just take for granted that don't exist in The Adjacent Promised Lands..

Did anyone seriously move here for the cracking bar scene, fabulous array of restaurants and cool vibe? Deluded. That's what the rest of London's for. And if 'the rest' now includes some places that are virtually on your doorstep, what's to grumble about?

[StraferJack]

Not to dismiss the gist of your argument *bob* but I think it's an objectively true statement to say whatever buzz it had has diminished. Agreed it was never a boho/hipster spot but..

Visitors from far away are quick to comment on the lesser buzz.

[*Bob*]

I can't remember that buzz. Where was it? How did it manifest itself?

[Louisa]

Got to agree with *Bob*, what buzz John? It's always had that feeling of nearly but not quite IMO. And now despite ridiculously high house prices the high street is still at the same nearly point it was at in 2008. End of.

Louisa.

[*Bob*]

Add (more than) a few hundred thousand for somewhere much smaller north of the river - where you get hassled by a crack addict every time you exit the tube - and 'nearly but not quite' is still more than enough to keep a whole load of ennui-free people wanting to live here.

[StraferJack]

Are people conflating house prices with an up/down turn in general activity?

I'm not trying to suggest ED is somehow worse/better than before, but quids and others are correct to say it has lost some of it's mojo. Wether you think that mojo was a good or bad thing is subjective but to asnwer *bob*'s question about buzz and when it manifested itself... And by buzz I (and maybe others?) am talking about the social, nightlife side of things. Not in a boho, hipster destination sense of "cool" - but general busy-ness

back in the early noughties, when breakfast was at redgwell's, pool was in The Forresters and World Cup games were watched in the back room of the old school Mag, I was a happy camper

Then a whole bunch of changes in the bar/restaurant scene happened - 2002-2005ish is as good a bracket for most of the changes - and then building on that up until 2008 when (when the World Changed because of money and that)

As someone who has been in most of those places, most of those weeks, I distinctly recall a period in the mid noughties where more people travelled farther to go out on the Lane. Tacky stretch limos and all

I recall leaving moribund central London bars at 11 (as they closed) and coming arriving at Goose Green to see EDT and other bars in full swing

Barely a week went by without one of the national papers having a bar/restaurant review from SE22 (slight exaggeration there but still plentiful)

As previously posted, visitors to our gaff remarked on the changes then and have remarked on them since

A lot of the tailing off will have had to do with recession/jobs/austerity and a lot of it will have to do with ageing demographics. But it's obvious that other areas are changing more rapidly in this field

And that's just fine. There is no requirement for you to have identified with or liked that scene in the mid noughties - but it did happen and it has changed. The "nearly not quite" tag isn't bad to describe it if it was aspiring to be the next Soho - but I don't think there was any collective "let's try and be.." - so it's not quite appropriate either

[*Bob*]

'Ten years ago, there was more buzz...' I know how you feel, Jack (rubs back with pained expression)

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's a suburban area. It's a pleasant place to live, but its not 'cool' and never was particularly. That's fine with me, if I wanted to live in Dalston I would.

[*Bob*]

I think I've just remembered when 'the buzz' was.

It was the bit when Lordship Lane was best avoided at the weekend.

[Jeremy]

2007 felt different to 2002, and by 2012 LL felt pretty different again. But it is still a decent place to go for a meal and/or a few drinks. Could be a lot worse.

[Earl Aelfheah]

All this insecurity and unease about the area and it's identity and people call it smug.

[Sue]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> I think I've just remembered when 'the buzz' was.

>

>

>

> It was the bit when Lordship Lane was best avoided

> at the weekend.

xxxxxxx

:))

[tomskip]

It really annoys me when you (collective) aren't allowed to state a preference for living in ED x number of years ago! Why can't I say that? its absolutely true. I used to really love living here, now not so much. I was never interested in living in a boho place with a buzz (too old when I moved here and I'd already done my 10 years in Dalston), but ED at the time had attractive affordable housing, some reasonable places on the High Street ... ok, Spaghetti Western and The Cheese Block ... and a friendly atmosphere. Whereas now it is like Clapham with fewer chain stores (but not for much longer).

[Otta]

Quids' post rings very true. I thought it was just me getting a bit older and seeing most of my friends leave the area, but maybe not.

[LondonMix]

East Dulwich is not like Clapham.

[Lynne]

I paid ?27,000 for a four bedroomed ED house, some years ago, admittedly. And that was still more than we'd got for a detatched house in a posh part of a non-London town. It's all relative. I was earning about ?1000 per annum at the time.

Lynne