Derelict Grove Tavern - who to contact?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

56 minutes ago, alice said:

Sorry, should’ve said it was about 5:30 pm. 
 

The sun set at 5.37pm yesterday and it was 7⁰ at that time, according to the Met Office. The skate park is, obviously, unlit.

Kids these days can't win. They get off their arse and make use of a derelict car park, and it gets called a haven for underage drink and drugs. They use the skate park and people complain it's noisy; they don't use it because it's dark and cold and people complain about that too! If they were out there bundled up against the cold yesterday, we'd probably hear moaning about "hoodie ruffians wearing masks..."

[alice]

this is jokes -  I walked through Dulwich park and there were loads of people there and actually the skate park is reasonably illuminated by the street lights.  I was stating a tiny fact about a sliver of time not making a statement on the 'youth of today'

 

 

Edited February 28 by alice
missed word

[imogen]

13 hours ago, alice said:

No, of course not, but the film is an over romanticised version of the skate park. 

On what basis do you call it romanticised? Have you ever spent time there?

[Patatina]

There are very few spaces available to young people these days, so one that was created by the young people themselves is a rare thing indeed and shows enterprise, engagement, and things we ought to encourage rather than being fearful of.

The councillor in the article is - predictably - advocating for an 'affordable' pub or restaurant. I'd be concerned this just a popular way of saying a 'chain' pub or restaurant which would be about as unappealing as a Lidl or Aldi.

On 27/02/2025 at 14:52, firkinboo said:

The skate park is foul. It’s an eyesore and also encourages underage drinking and drugs.

Did you prefer it when it was being used as an open-air rubbish tip? Because that's what happened before the skatepark and what it would become again if the skatepark wasn't there as the landowners do nothing with the space.

[alice]

I think a large supermarket would be brilliant there Aldi, Lidl, Sainsbury’s  - topped of course by social housing. 
Skate park is a great temporary use for this derelict site. But I expect things will change when the lease runs out.

[jazzer]

Hopefully if that is the case the skate park can be relocated as it was put together by young people for young people with lots of hard work and effort to achieve what they have done so far. 

[Graham Little]

We have an endless choice of supermarkets, large ones, small ones, long ones, short ones, metros, petrol station supermarkets- even a stones throw from that skatepark and good to be realistic...I doubt social housing would really appear....like nearly every building that pops up it would be yet more luxury flats, not that well made, and not that attractive. 

[DulwichParker]

The skatepark has been a great use of a derelict site, but surely the point is that that site should not have been allowed (and should not continue to be allowed) to have become derelict in the first place. As someone who couldn't live much closer to the Grove Tavern, I would welcome any redevelopment efforts. The current state of the pub is untenable, wasteful and ultimately an embarrassment for the local area. 

The concerns mentioned about young people and the lack of public space for them to spend time are totally valid. And I agree, its very inspiring that a group of teenagers have built the skate park and created something out of nothing. But that shouldn't prevent the site being turned into something that is of utility to the whole community - whether that be housing, supermarkets or a pub/restaurant. 

[YazzieSE22]

I am a secondary teacher in the local area and totally agree that it’s so important for teenagers to be given a space to connect and learn skills. I think it’s lovely that they’ve been able to do this organically due to the carpark being derelict but it defeats the very concept of dynamic urban living to use this as a reason to block the development of the space into something that could benefit the whole community. I would really welcome an entrepreneur bringing a proposal forward that thinks about how we could best make the space work for everyone.

I’d also love to see the council engage with the kids themselves on how and where to make the skate park permanent, perhaps in Dulwich Park itself. Give them some funding to make it nicer than a space by such a busy traffic route. I also agree we shouldn’t romanticise the skate park - they’re not principals in the Royal Ballet Company. I don’t think it’s hugely affecting the community, but let’s not pretend there isn’t some underage drinking and drug use going on there.

But mainly the building itself is a waste of space and it’s often depressing to see the private security company vans parked out there late at night. Let’s use it as an opportunity to engage in conversations about what this part of Lordship Lane really needs. 

Edited March 4 by YazzieSE22

[Graham Little]

I agree its good to have a conversation about what Lordship lane really needs and I feel we are doing that in this forum; and some trying to steer it away from what commerce needs (lordship lane) and toward what people need, particularly our future generations who are being left a fractured future and are responding with higher suicide rates and depression. 

no doubt the world of profit will win, but that is why some of us wish to speak out even if in vain.

 

I agree with you that there may be some underage drink drugs but would we all prefer that to be done behind closed doors .... I think more dangerous actually.

 

I applaud your optimism that dulwich estates could consider a skatepark into Dulwich park, maybe, although it could have closing time, insurance, safety issues. It would be great if a developer wants to include a skatepark, but I wonder what he would gain from that in terms of his profit. 

I would rather give the benefit of doubt to those who leave behind the empty digital world and bravely try something communal, generative, challenging.

 

In the 1970s a tv programme urged teenagers to 

"turn off your TV set and do something less boring instead"

only some families can afford clubs......

 

 

 

 

[malumbu]

It was a marketing approach to get kids to do exactly the opposite.  ie watch the programme.  'Why don't you' was very progressive at the time.

It encouraged kids to partake in craft type activities.  Creative, just like the skatepark

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Don't_You%3F

[Graham Little]

yes!

[alice]

As Peckham Rye Park has a well used skate park, there’s a precedent for one to be considered for Dulwich Park. 

[Sue]

2 hours ago, alice said:

As Peckham Rye Park has a well used skate park, there’s a precedent for one to be considered for Dulwich Park. 

I was about to post the very same thing!

 

3 hours ago, Graham Little said:

I applaud your optimism that dulwich estates could consider a skatepark into Dulwich park, maybe, although it could have closing time, insurance, safety issues. 

Good points, and I wonder how  these issues are resolved in the skate park in Peckham Rye park?

The park has closing times when the gates are supposed to be locked, but in practice they don't always seem to be locked when they should be.

I don't know why - possibly staff absence?

There is also a skate park on the South Bank - I wonder how  the insurance and/or safety issues are addressed here. Presumably the place is open for skating 24/7,  as there wouldn't seem to be any way to close it?

[alice]

There’s another one in Brixton open 24 seven I don’t think the insurance thing can be a problem

[jazzer]

I "BELIEVE" theres a huge one, ginormous In Burgess Park.

[firkinboo]

God forbid anyone builds a skate park in Dulwich park, as that will ruin it for those of us who still value a bit of space to enjoy peace and quiet in the middle of a huge, noisy, crowded, filthy city. 

[Sue]

29 minutes ago, firkinboo said:

God forbid anyone builds a skate park in Dulwich park, as that will ruin it for those of us who still value a bit of space to enjoy peace and quiet in the middle of a huge, noisy, crowded, filthy city. 

I don't suppose it will take up the whole of the park!

The one in Peckham Rye Park doesn't affect anyone's enjoyment of for example the Sexby garden, the lake/pond, the Japanese garden   or the nature garden, so far as I know.

Or were you joking? 

[ab29]

The old tavern is falling apart and it needs be developed; the whole immediate area been a no man's land for years. Labour is threatening to build on green areas - how about using places like this instead?

The skate park can be rellocated - how about closed Dulwich Village junction? It is closed - get rid of cycling lanes and it will fit there perfectly.

[Glemham]

Now that’s an idea worth considering #ab29!

The Grove saga should be coming to an end soon as the lease from the owners - The Dulwich Estate - held by Stonegate Pubs should run out this year. The group recently found financial backers to help with its £2.2 billion debt.

The Estate refuses to reveal anything about their plans for the site citing commercial confidentiality. But they have had many years to plan for the lease ending.

However they spent  three years refurbishing  The Crown and Greyhound aka The Dog in Dulwich Village so don’t hold your breath for anything to happen to The Grove  in the near future!

[ab29]

12 minutes ago, Glemham said:

Now that’s an idea worth considering #ab29!

The Grove saga should be coming to an end soon as the lease from the owners - The Dulwich Estate - held by Stonegate Pubs should run out this year. The group recently found financial backers to help with its £2.2 billion debt.

The Estate refuses to reveal anything about their plans for the site citing commercial confidentiality. But they have had many years to plan for the lease ending.

However they spent  three years refurbishing  The Crown and Greyhound aka The Dog in Dulwich Village so don’t hold your breath for anything to happen to The Grove  in the near future!

Oh that is interesting.

@Andy Simmons you have been the local Labour councillour for years and years and years so you must be aware of this.

"The Grove saga should be coming to an end soon as the lease from the owners - The Dulwich Estate - held by Stonegate Pubs should run out this year. The group recently found financial backers to help with its £2.2 billion debt" - who are these backers?

"The Estate refuses to reveal anything about their plans for the site citing commercial confidentiality. But they have had many years to plan for the lease ending" - what are the plans, do you know? Why is it a secret? 

"However they spent  three years refurbishing  The Crown and Greyhound aka The Dog in Dulwich Village so don’t hold your breath for anything to happen to The Grove  in the near future!"

Three years to refurbish a pub 🤔

[malumbu]

On 14/03/2025 at 18:13, firkinboo said:

God forbid anyone builds a skate park in Dulwich park, as that will ruin it for those of us who still value a bit of space to enjoy peace and quiet in the middle of a huge, noisy, crowded, filthy city. 

How do you judge London as being filthy?  Have you been to Manilla, Jakarta, Mexico City, Paris, in the height of summer?  All relative but London's air is far cleaners than recent decades, as industry has all but gone and emissions far less polluted.  Makes me wonder why you live in this dirty city.

[ab29]

On 14/03/2025 at 18:13, firkinboo said:

God forbid anyone builds a skate park in Dulwich park, as that will ruin it for those of us who still value a bit of space to enjoy peace and quiet in the middle of a huge, noisy, crowded, filthy city. 

Well, with the current labour goverment following the orange fool in the white house - who knows? They've already given in to lime - owned by american billioner, destroying whatever little public space is left in London 🤔

[malumbu]

Odd post.  London continues to be full of green and public space.  Labour kicked off the creation of a massive new park with revived and cleaner waterways in East London. Perhaps a mountain hut in Montana off grid may be more suitable for your needs, running water, timber, deer, a lifetimes supply of shotgun pellets, and hunting knives will do you fine. 

[ab29]

On 16/03/2025 at 12:56, ab29 said:

Well, with the current labour goverment following the orange fool in the white house - who knows? They've already given in to lime - owned by american billioner, destroying whatever little public space is left in London 🤔

People living on main roads like South Circular,  Lordship Lane, Croxted Road, Grove Vale etc  have been treated like rubbish all along. I hope the Grove Tovern is developed into a green space or a block of flats

Edited March 20 by ab29