Derelict Grove Tavern - who to contact?

[Dean Connell]

Hey all,

Does anyone know how best to contact The Dulwich Estate or Stonegate? I'm a local entrepreneur with an idea for redeveloping the Derelict Grove Tavern. 

Thanks, 

Dean

Edited February 24 by Administrator
Changed title to differentiate this from the exiting thread

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Dulwich Estate: https://www.thedulwichestate.org.uk/contact

 

Stonegate: I -think- this is the right company but not sure: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/FC029833

UK contact details here: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/BR014816

[hobbs16]

It doesn't need redeveloping.  The skate park is a perfect use.

[alice]

The skate park organically grew out of the situation to make it permanent defeats the purpose and the philosophy of such places

[firkinboo]

The skate park is foul. It’s an eyesore and also encourages underage drinking and drugs.

[Penguin68]

15 minutes ago, firkinboo said:

encourages underage drinking and drugs

Evidence? 

[Graham Little]

Please dont redevelop....the skatepark is a  rare place where young kids can chat, connect, and do something outside of the addictive but dull world of the internet. Community is one of our most precious parts of life. 

[claresy]

How mean-minded to call the creative project of a group of enterprising youngsters, using their time productively 'foul'?  Surely taking the initiative to set this u,p so young people can be outside and exercising is a positive and productive thing to be admired? 'Underage drinking and drugs' are more likely to happen when young people have nowhere to go and nothing to do (plus they can take place anywhere!) . How is a derelict pub better?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

2 hours ago, Graham Little said:

Please dont redevelop....the skatepark is a  rare place where young kids can chat, connect, and do something outside of the addictive but dull world of the internet. Community is one of our most precious parts of life. 

Totally agree with you that the skate park is a great little autonomous zone for kids and youth. But at the same time there's gotta be a way to make better of the pub than having a derelict, vandalised building, even if it means moving the skate park. It's not just a missed opportunity, it's actively antisocial neglect by Dulwich Estate and Stonegate.

[Sue]

7 hours ago, firkinboo said:

The skate park is foul. It’s an eyesore and also encourages underage drinking and drugs.

Are you aware that the young people using the skate park, none of whom (to the best of my knowledge) had previously acted, put on an absolutely amazing performance of A Midsummer's Night Dream actually in and around the skate park?

They all learned their words. To the best of my knowledge they all made their costumes. They all attended rehearsals. 

During some scenes of the play, some of them were actually on skateboards.

The performance would have been a credit to professional actors. It was wonderful.

There were also a group of people using a small area behind the skateboard park as an allotment. They are really keen. I have talked to them. I don't know if they are still there - it hasn't been the season or the weather for much growing lately.  

As for "underage drinking and drugs " -  I have never seen any evidence of either on this site. Have you, or are you just making assumptions?

Skateboarding is very skilled. How do you suppose somebody under the influence of alcohol or drugs could do it?

The last time I passed, there was a father (I presume) in there with his son (I presume). I don't know who was teaching who, but it was really heartwarming to see. 

 

Edited February 27 by Sue

[malumbu]

4 hours ago, firkinboo said:

The skate park is foul. It’s an eyesore and also encourages underage drinking and drugs.

Sounds like a cool place to hang out, even it I am over the minimum drinking age.  Always looks cool when I cycle past, never seen any bother and love some of the community stuff they do too.

[simopetar]

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/24959748.grove-pub-dulwich-affordable-pub-restaurant-wanted/

1 minute ago, simopetar said:

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/24959748.grove-pub-dulwich-affordable-pub-restaurant-wanted/

Not sure where this councillor got their opinions…

[beansprout]

At the end of the day, whilst these youngsters have been enterprising presumably with adult help & I also assume no local youth group - the fact remains that it is a prime site fir redevelopment be it a supermarket - Aldi, Lidel whatever or social housing which, let’s be honest here lots  of people need. 
 Know Idea why has been derelict gor do long anyhow, but somewhere on this site I think there is a problem with who owns it.

And let’s not forget the homeless man who slept there - Front on Lordship Lane who had his home destroyed by I assume vandals a couple of years ago. 

 

 

 

[Sue]

I never went in The Grove when it was a pub, but I had a meal there once when it was a Harvester (I used to occasionally be a Mystery Shopper, and I was persuaded to go and have this meal because it was a bank holiday and they couldn't find anyone else to do it.)

It was truly horrible. At least I got paid for eating it, albeit not very much, but I think I would have paid not to have to eat it.

If it becomes an "affordable" restaurant again, I hope at least it has decent food.

3 minutes ago, beansprout said:

At the end of the day, whilst these youngsters have been enterprising presumably with adult help 

Why do "these youngsters" need "adult help" to be enterprising?

They aren't six year olds! 

[malumbu]

Went to the Harvester a couple of times to have a beer in the garden, it was quite popular and had a 'certain' charm. 

[Sue]

5 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Went to the Harvester a couple of times to have a beer in the garden, it was quite popular and had a 'certain' charm. 

A beer in the garden would have been nice, I'm sure!

Mine was a meal inside. I don't remember much about it except that it was horrible.

[imogen]

The younger (and some older) people have taken an unused unloved space and made it their own. Where do we think young people should go? I was involved in a campaign with a group of younger people a few years ago to get a skate park built. I was so shocked by the backlash and nastiness from a vocal 'adult' few. The young people themselves said that they are told they shouldn't spend all their time on screens and yet when they come together and do something that is physical that involves socialising and positive connection they get slated for it. The skating community is so welcoming and supportive. Come on people - see the bigger picture and the positives. They've made a good place to be out of nothing - they are recycling and building and being creative and social and entrepreneurial. I suggest we reflect on what the real issue is here. Have a look at this - 

 

Edited February 28 by imogen

[alice]

Went past yesterday there was one man skating. It was a good use of a derelict site, but hopefully it won’t be if Southwark Council  and Dulwich estates sort it out. Compulsory purchase anyone?

[Sue]

11 hours ago, imogen said:

The younger (and some older) people have taken an unused unloved space and made it their own. Where do we think young people should go? I was involved in a campaign with a group of younger people a few years ago to get a skate park built. I was so shocked by the backlash and nastiness from a vocal 'adult' few. The young people themselves said that they are told they shouldn't spend all their time on screens and yet when they come together and do something that is physical that involves socialising and positive connection they get slated for it. The skating community is so welcoming and supportive. Come on people - see the bigger picture and the positives. They've made a good place to be out of nothing - they are recycling and building and being creative and social and entrepreneurial. I suggest we reflect on what the real issue is here. Have a look at this - 

 

Thank you so much for posting that. Absolutely brilliant.

I thought I had seen the film (?) before, but I don't think I had,  as I don't remember it being so long.

Perhaps firkinboo would like to comment? They have gone very quiet!

1 hour ago, alice said:

Went past yesterday there was one man skating. 

Well, it's not going to be full of skaters 24/7, is it?!

[alice]

No, of course not, but the film is an over romanticised version of the skate park. 

[Alec1]

15 hours ago, beansprout said:

 

And let’s not forget the homeless man who slept there - Front on Lordship Lane who had his home destroyed by I assume vandals a couple of years ago. 

 

 

 

If memory serves me right, it wasn't vandals, it was either council or landowners.

[Sue]

1 hour ago, alice said:

No, of course not, but the film is an over romanticised version of the skate park. 

Because . ...?

What would your unromanticised film version of the skate park be?

Are you saying that what it portrays is wrong in some way?

Edited February 28 by Sue

[Graham Little]

Skateboarding is so misunderstood...it is more technical than ballet and the use of drink is not very compatible with a  practise that requires rare dedication and degrees of skill and coordination impossible with alcohol and for most people... impossible at any time. The mutual support and encouragement in that culture is something to be valued.

 

My Godson's friend had just taken his life which really put things into perspective for me. being trapped alone in a bedroom instead is not great for mental health...

 

think of the access previous generations had to no mans land.  

 

London has always been a place where wealthy corporate areas remain next to areas of interesting creativity.  The skateboarders beneath south bank centre have a constant audience of tourists;  places like that keep London from becoming stagnant and cold. 

 

 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

4 hours ago, alice said:

Went past yesterday there was one man skating. 

Yesterday was a school day and it was 8⁰! I'm not sure what kind of truanting youth in arctic survival gear you expected to be out there!

How many people were having a drink in the pub, just out of interest? Many people enjoying a meal in the restaurant? Any overnight guests in the upstairs rooms? A lot of bar staff on duty yesterday by any chance?

[alice]

Sorry, should’ve said it was about 5:30 pm.