South Circular roadworks - excessive disruption

[ab29]

  On 16/03/2025 at 11:30, KalamityKel said:

Erm actually, they've been doing a fair bit more than that tiny patch.  They're incredibly tidy and fill things back in once done and take the temp lights out often.

Lots of preparation, from my daily observance (no I'm not a nosy neighbour, the walk past that stretch is part of my daily commute), has been done especially with wiring.

One of the crossings, already in place (not in use), does take a bit of looking at to process how it will work with the flow of traffic and timings... 

Considering the heavy use of the junction, I think the work being done is not too bad.  The traffic does move, unlike when the numerous pipes from the library and right through/past Forest Hill burst.

It's worth keeping in mind, the Thames Water Works at the Library are not helping with congestion. The timing of these two projects are really the 

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"Considering the heavy use of the junction, I think the work being done is not too bad." - what work? The hole in the ground?

[malumbu]

  On 16/03/2025 at 11:30, KalamityKel said:

Erm actually, they've been doing a fair bit more than that tiny patch.  They're incredibly tidy and fill things back in once done and take the temp lights out often.

Lots of preparation, from my daily observance (no I'm not a nosy neighbour, the walk past that stretch is part of my daily commute), has been done especially with wiring.

One of the crossings, already in place (not in use), does take a bit of looking at to process how it will work with the flow of traffic and timings... 

Considering the heavy use of the junction, I think the...

 

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Thanks for the positive, or dare I say constructive (!) post.  Others feel they know better than the professionals.  Surely there are other things to occupy your time?  Whoops, and mine too 😁

[ab29]

  On 16/03/2025 at 11:30, KalamityKel said:

Erm actually, they've been doing a fair bit more than that tiny patch.  They're incredibly tidy and fill things back in once done and take the temp lights out often.

Lots of preparation, from my daily observance (no I'm not a nosy neighbour, the walk past that stretch is part of my daily commute), has been done especially with wiring.

One of the crossings, already in place (not in use), does take a bit of looking at to process how it will work with the flow of traffic and timings... 

Considering the heavy use of the junction, I think the work being done is not too bad.  The traffic does move, unlike when the numerous pipes from the library and right through/past Forest Hill burst.

It's worth keeping in mind, the Thames Water Works at the Library are not helping with congestion. The timing of these two projects are really the bug bear.

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What work? 

Two weeks in and we have a hole in the ground and that is it. The major A road blocked for 13 weeks because of London mayor and Southwark council incompetence. 

[Cyclemonkey]

Also if you want night or weekend working it will cost a lot more, then you would be moaning about the budget. 

[ab29]

Am not moaning about a budget - what budget anyway? 

I had no letters, emails or any other notifications warning me about the upcoming works, even though I live next door.

No one told me:

1 what the proposed work is about

2 why now

3 what is the cost

4 how were the costs calculated - what company was selected to complete the works and what criteria were used.

Edited Sunday at 14:13 by ab29

[Cyclemonkey]

It's a pedestrian crossing,  to make it safer and easier for people crossing that junction on foot.   It was planned well before Covid - there was a public consultation.  I assume the financial challenges and other issues caused by the pandemic delayed it somewhat.

Generally,  improvement works in your local area are a good thing yes?  Even if you have to suffer some temporary disruption. 

Edited Sunday at 15:20 by Cyclemonkey

[jazzer]

Ah, why now, well it's year end of the financial year, so its lets spend the budget otherwise we lose it or get less next year. Call me a cynic.

[Insuflo]

You are a cynic and you are wrong. The scheme has been planned a long time and TfL Streets will have set aside funding as part of a long term plan. The idea that a rush of public sector works take place toward the end of the financial year to use up money that has been found lying around is a myth. 

[ab29]

I have ZERO faith in the "improvements work" in my local area since the ltn was forced on people despite the rejection.  On the contrary. Sorry to all the council staff on this thread.

For years we have been asking for extended time on the crossing on L.L / Wood Vale for pedestrians - no reaction.

For years we have been asking for a proper pedestrian crossing on Collage Rd, in front of Dulwich Park - no reaction.

But suddenly Dulwich Collage / South Circular round-about is blocked, who knows why, with one hole dug out in two weeks, stationary traffic excacerbated by the ltns, air and noise pollution through the roof and ambulances, police cars and fire enginees stuck anc delayed in this mess. Just because the council asnd tfl can 🤔

Edited Sunday at 16:31 by ab29

[Cyclemonkey]

The work is for a well consulted on pedestrian crossing, people have been asking for.

Unfortunately infrastructure cannot magically appear over night with no disruption. 

[ab29]

@Cyclemonkey can you pls share the outcome of the consultations? 

[Cyclemonkey]

It will be in the TfL website somewhere I suspect.  If I remember responses were overwhelmingly in favour.

Edited Sunday at 17:36 by Cyclemonkey

[ab29]

  On 16/03/2025 at 17:35, Cyclemonkey said:

It will be in the TfL website somewhere I suspect.  If I remember responses were overwhelmingly in favour.

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Pls provide the links / evidence

[Cyclemonkey]

Google AI could probably give you a good potted history.

  On 16/03/2025 at 17:37, ab29 said:

Pls provide the links / evidence

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I'm not your secretary.  Google exists.  I responded and I think TfL emailed me with the result but it was a while ago.

[ab29]

I don't use google.

No evidence the local residents wanted this chaos then 🙂

[Cyclemonkey]

I give up.🤷‍♀️

Tell you what, if you are so bothered, how about you send an FOI to TfL asking to see the results of consultations.  

Edited Sunday at 18:03 by Cyclemonkey

[exdulwicher]

  On 16/03/2025 at 17:45, ab29 said:

I don't use google.

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Other search engines are available.

  On 16/03/2025 at 17:45, ab29 said:

No evidence the local residents wanted this chaos then 🙂

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I assume you want things like gas, water, sewage, electricity, internet, safer roads...? Cos if you do, that's the price of them, occasional disruption when those things are repaired, replaced, upgraded etc. The idea that you'd be consulted on all of them is insane. And even when consultations happen, they're not Yes/No answers, no-one is going to say "do you want a sewer pipe or are you OK with all your waste running down the street like in the Dark Ages?", they're "we are going to do X, have you got any thoughts on it?"

[ab29]

  On 16/03/2025 at 17:49, Cyclemonkey said:

I give up.🤷‍♀️

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Just what I thought.

Fyi Qwant is great re: the search engine

[Cyclemonkey]

I am not wasting my time indulging sealioning.

I took part in a public consultation, TfL wrote to me with the results  which were overwhelmingly positive.  If you are so keen to find out I suggest you do a little extra work and send in an info request to TfL.

[ab29]

  On 16/03/2025 at 17:52, exdulwicher said:

Other search engines are available.

I assume you want things like gas, water, sewage, electricity, internet, safer roads...? Cos if you do, that's the price of them, occasional disruption when those things are repaired, replaced, upgraded etc. The idea that you'd be consulted on all of them is insane. And even when consultations happen, they're not Yes/No answers, no-one is going to say "do you want a sewer pipe or are you OK with all your waste running down the street like in the Dark Ages?", they're "we are going to do X, have you got any thoughts on it?"

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Yeah, "occasional disruption" - we live in a block of flats on LL.  We have no gas. Electricity only.

 

 

[Sue]

  On 16/03/2025 at 12:18, ab29 said:

"Considering the heavy use of the junction, I think the work being done is not too bad." - what work? The hole in the ground?

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[ab29]

Nature is most important.

Edited Sunday at 18:17 by ab29

[Cyclemonkey]

Mate, you're not that special.  We've been having the water pipes replaced on our road for the last 12 months - road closures, water shut offs, night works, parking restrictions, footpaths closed .... the lot. 

[Penguin68]

As the person who kicked this thread off could I just note the following:-

1. As a resident of the Southern end of Underhill (for the last nearly 40 years) this junction (of the South Circular with Lordship Lane as it runs into being London Road) has always been considered hazardous to pedestrians. There have been numerous attempts to get 'something' done about it, the key issue being, so far as I understand it, that there were no 'simple' solutions which could be easily input. So nobody has argued that something didn't need to be done, but no one actually knew what that something might be. Because of the width of the roads at the key point the necessary time taken to stop traffic (from 3 directions) to allow pedestrians to cross was always considered too long to stop traffic entering and exiting the South Circular. I am very clear that all those pedestrians using the junction were very well aware of its dangers and wanted a solution, whatever that might be.

2. On the assumption that there is now a solution to this, my complaint was that 13 weeks to implement it seemed far too long - if the problem had been solved (which I imagined might involve some pretty canny traffic light timing and sequencing) the work to set it up was actually a programming job for the lights - which might take a lot of time but would be done off site and in advance. On site it would just be a matter of wiring in lights and controller boxes, signage and road marking. With, possibly, new traffic islands, and consequent re-surfacing

3. The fact that the amount of actual construction work done in the first week was minimal, and in the first two weeks hardly more so, does suggest that this is not a well planned (project managed) exercise. It has taken, it would seem, two working weeks, excluding evenings and weekends, to achieve what appears to be two days work. When quite long stretches of Underhill were resurfaced, including reinstating stretches of paving, this was blitzed out in a couple or 3 days, for instance, so I do have an idea of how fast even contractors for Southwark can work. When the plans were first published (only a few of days before the start of works), I felt that 13 weeks, even assuming only weekday daylight working, was far too long. Which it seems, so far, to have been.

4. But this is not work which wasn't wanted, and which has been imposed on an unwilling electorate. Far from it. It is the method and manner of the project, not its intent, which I believe is the act of very poor planners without any regard for local users of these roads.

But then TFL (and the Mayor and his predecessors ) have always hated and despised South London and have no interest in investment in transport - compare the North Circular with the South, compare the availability of Tubes north and south of the River - well, need I go on?

 

Edited Sunday at 18:22 by Penguin68

[exdulwicher]

  On 16/03/2025 at 18:19, Penguin68 said:

On the assumption....

...it seemed far too long...

I imagined...

...does suggest...

...it would seem...

...what appears to be two days work....

I felt...

...it seems...

...I believe...

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So actually, you have no idea of anything, just a list of assumptions and beliefs about how long you think this work should take? Seemingly based upon another belief that all contractors are inherently lazy ne'er-do-wells and a Mayor who apparently "despises" South London (in spite of actually being born in Tooting, being a councillor for Wandsworth and then an MP for Tooting)

You might have shared your expertise in project management, road design, phasing of works, the numerous different organisations involved (and the associated numerous different bits of infrastructure under the roads), risk management...?