Transport issues today?

[Sue]

Absolute nightmare trying to get back to East Dulwich from London Bridge this early evening.

Trains all messed up - East Dulwich train not stopping there, fast to Tulse Hill  - buses all messed up, got tube to Oval then 185 apparently due in 1 minute for about ten minutes didn't arrive. 

Still in transit after about an hour.

Can't find any explanation online.

Does anyone know what's wrong, or are we just very very unlucky? 

[ab29]

Bus number 40 used to to go go London Bridge. Cut by TFL no one knows why - redirected to Clerkenwell where no one ever goes to - misterious. Residents of SE22 started a petition and protested to no avail - who cares? @Andy Simmons I contacted you about bus no 40 ages ago - any updates?

Edited Sunday at 19:05 by ab29

[Sue]

50 minutes ago, ab29 said:

Bus number 40 used to to go go London Bridge. Cut by TFL no one knows why - redirected to Clerkenwell where no one ever goes to - misterious. Residents of SE22 started a petition and protested to no avail - who cares? @Andy Simmons I contacted you about bus no 40 ages ago - any updates?

No chance of the 40 route being changed back now, I'm sure.

But the trains should have been running, though delayed,  according to the Google maps info - but it turned out they  weren't stopping at East Dulwich.

Couldn't get a bus - eventually a 35 turned up but zoomed past full.

We could have walked from LB to ED in the time it took us to get back here by public transport.

 

 

[ab29]

"No chance of the 40 route being changed back now, I'm sure." - but why? The decision to redirect it was wrong

[Sue]

14 hours ago, ab29 said:

"No chance of the 40 route being changed back now, I'm sure." - but why? The decision to redirect it was wrong

Sadly I think if a previous petition had no effect, things are unlikely to be different now.

Whatever the reason was for changing the route presumably is still the same?

Do you know what it was? TfL must have had data to back it up, surely?

It can't have been just a random Friday afternoon decision made out of the blue to cause maximum inconvenience to people from East Dulwich trying to get to and from London Bridge/Guys without having to change buses when there are problems with the trains?

[malumbu]

Some days everything goes wrong, engineering works, diversions, signal failure, trespassers on the tracks, broken down trains/buses, cars parked on the bus lane etc etc. Always at the worst times.  No answer I am afraid beyond checking your journey before you leave and return 

[exdulwicher]

On 17/02/2025 at 10:42, Sue said:

Whatever the reason was for changing the route presumably is still the same?

Do you know what it was? TfL must have had data to back it up, surely?

Back in about 2018, TfL had a consultation on a number of bus route changes, mostly to get rid of some longer routes (which are much more subject to delays than shorter ones) and also to prevent a mass of buses all terminating in and around Strand / Trafalgar Square / Oxford Circus.

So the 40 got withdrawn between Aldgate and Elephant & Castle and was rerouted to Clerkenwell Green via Blackfriars Bridge and Ludgate Circus to replace route 45.

At the same time, TfL introduced the Hopper Fare which meant that if you subsequently had to change buses as a result of the route alterations, you still only got charged the one flat rate, equivalent to taking just the one bus.

If there are ever any issues at London Bridge, try getting the Northern Line to Elephant & Castle - that gives you options to get the 176 or 40 from there or any bus towards Camberwell then pick up the 185. Or you can do Thameslink to Herne Hill then 37 towards Dulwich. 

Oval is a bit more flaky / fewer options. You kind of feel that you've gone further south on the Tube so it should be quicker / easier but it rarely is. On the other hand I get why people would not want to be wandering around Elephant in the dark, it's not one of the nicer Tube stations...

[Sue]

On 17/02/2025 at 10:56, malumbu said:

Some days everything goes wrong, engineering works, diversions, signal failure, trespassers on the tracks, broken down trains/buses, cars parked on the bus lane etc etc. Always at the worst times.  No answer I am afraid beyond checking your journey before you leave and return 

We did check our journey.

The train supposed to be going to East Dulwich at whatever the time was didn't go there. It went straight to Tulse Hill.

Other people were stranded as well. There was no explanation.

And when we asked staff when  the next train was, it was in something like forty minutes' time.

15 minutes ago, exdulwicher said:

Back in about 2018, TfL had a consultation on a number of bus route changes, mostly to get rid of some longer routes (which are much more subject to delays than shorter ones) and also to prevent a mass of buses all terminating in and around Strand / Trafalgar Square / Oxford Circus.

So the 40 got withdrawn between Aldgate and Elephant & Castle and was rerouted to Clerkenwell Green via Blackfriars Bridge and Ludgate Circus to replace route 45.

At the same time, TfL introduced the Hopper Fare which meant that if you subsequently had to change buses as a result of the route alterations, you still only got charged the one flat rate, equivalent to taking just the one bus.

If there are ever any issues at London Bridge, try getting the Northern Line to Elephant & Castle - that gives you options to get the 176 or 40 from there or any bus towards Camberwell then pick up the 185. Or you can do Thameslink to Herne Hill then 37 towards Dulwich. 

Oval is a bit more flaky / fewer options. You kind of feel that you've gone further south on the Tube so it should be quicker / easier but it rarely is. On the other hand I get why people would not want to be wandering around Elephant in the dark, it's not one of the nicer Tube stations...

If memory serves, unless you want a fairly long walk round the corner to the bus stop in Walworth Road  where both the 176 and 40 stop,  since the modernisation the nearest bus stop to the Elephant station exit is only for the176, not the 40?

I don't find the area a problem since they did away with the underpasses.

I actually prefer going to Oval because although there's only the 185, the bus stop is just opposite the station exit, and there's a bus shelter. Also the bus journey is shorter than that from the Elephant.

Yes a bus to Camberwell would have been an option, that was why we tried to get a 35 from London Bridge,  which after we had waited for ages sailed past the bus stop  full.

There are many more options once at Camberwell than just the 185, though of course the 185 is coming from a different direction. But once at Camberwell you have the 40, 176, 185 or 484 to East Dulwich.

I wasn't aware of any trains to Herne Hill from London Bridge, thanks,  I will check it out, though it seems a bit of a long way round!

[NewWave]

Personally I wish the 176 stopped in Oxford Circus like it used to.

I know we have the 12 but it would be great to have 2 busses to W1 especially when the train service is rubbish

[Sue]

58 minutes ago, NewWave said:

Personally I wish the 176 stopped in Oxford Circus like it used to.

I know we have the 12 but it would be great to have 2 busses to W1 especially when the train service is rubbish

The 12 is ok but it goes all round the houses via Peckham, unless you get another bus and change to the 12 somewhere after Camberwell Green (if you can be bothered!) 

Also the earlier you get on the 12, the more likely the front seats at the top will be free 🤣

Yes, it's a pain having to trek up to TCR to get the 176. Oxford Street is a very long street! It was very convenient when the 176 went to Oxford Circus.

But Regent Street was closed for ages for some kind of works (?gas? Water?) I don't know if it's opened again.  So it was better to get the tube to Oxford Circus.

Also, the 12 used to go to Notting Hill. I had a friend who lived there and we could go straight through to and from ED on one bus.

And the 37 used to go to Richmond. Various ways to get there now, but they all involve at least one change.

I suppose we should be grateful for a public transport system at all, rather than moaning (in my case) about it!

Edited Tuesday at 21:46 by Sue

[jazzer]

14 hours ago, NewWave said:

Personally I wish the 176 stopped in Oxford Circus like it used to.

I know we have the 12 but it would be great to have 2 busses to W1 especially when the train service is rubbish

Thought it still did?

[Eats Dulwich]

17 hours ago, Sue said:

 

I wasn't aware of any trains to Herne Hill from London Bridge, thanks,  I will check it out, though it seems a bit of a long way round!

It's Blackfriars or Elephant to Herne hill, not London Bridge. You can also get train to Denmark Hill from Elephant so if the timing is right it's a lot faster than a bus, and then pick up bus from DH. 

It's awful at Elephant coming out of northern line exit and having to walk all way to Walworth road to get bus. 

[Penguin68]

None of this addresses the fact that you once could get to Guy's - famous for its Cancer Clinics - and back from Dulwich - very much its catchment area for these clinics, by bus, without the need to change - the alternatives routes posited here are fine for the fit and healthy, but for those heading to, and particularly back from,  radiation or chemotherapy treatments a nightmare with the changes necessary. 

[Sue]

9 hours ago, jazzer said:

Thought it still did?

No. It starts and stops from the TCR end of Charing Cross Road, and has done for years now, unfortunately.

[NewWave]

@Sue You are Correct about the 12 going to Notting Hill-In fact in Ran through to Shepherds Bush.

I used to get the 12 bus from Bayswater Road/Lancaster Gate to my college in Shepherds bush when I started college there in 1977.

@jazzer We've lived in this area for 14 years and the 176 had already stopped running to Oxford Circus when we moved here.

@Penguin68 I totally agree- added to which due to the long gaps between busses there are often no seats available when one does turn up.

[Sue]

6 hours ago, Eats Dulwich said:

It's Blackfriars or Elephant to Herne hill, not London Bridge. You can also get train to Denmark Hill from Elephant so if the timing is right it's a lot faster than a bus, and then pick up bus from DH. 

It's awful at Elephant coming out of northern line exit and having to walk all way to Walworth road to get bus. 

 I'd much rather just sit on one bus from the Elephant to ED, however slow,  than get a train to DH and then have to get another bus!

But each to their own, obviously! I'm old and lazy these days!

Isn't there only one exit now from the Elephant, or have I dreamed it?!

I thought that if you come out of the tube station at the Elephant  and turn right there is a bus stop very nearby?  However  not all the buses to ED come down that road.

[Eats Dulwich]

13 hours ago, Sue said:

 I'd much rather just sit on one bus from the Elephant to ED, however slow,  than get a train to DH and then have to get another bus!

But each to their own, obviously! I'm old and lazy these days!

Isn't there only one exit now from the Elephant, or have I dreamed it?!

I thought that if you come out of the tube station at the Elephant  and turn right there is a bus stop very nearby?  However  not all the buses to ED come down that road.

I just find getting a bus all the way from the elephant too stressful. there's either an 'incident' on the bus, or it waits at Camberwell to change drivers (I'm looking at you 176) or to even out the timetable.

But as you say each to their own!

The Elephant is a real mess at the moment. I think i came out of the other shopping centre exit a couple of weeks ago so it was open then and wanted to get a train but you couldn't get to the overground via the shopping centre, you had to walk all the way round the back, which was even further than the ED bus stop!

Edited yesterday at 10:18 by Eats Dulwich

[Sue]

To be fair, I've only ever seen one "incident" on a bus round here, it was years and years ago and it wasn't between the Elephant and ED.

I'd much rather travel on a bus late at night than the underground or train.

And the changing drivers thing is a pain anywhere!

The Elephant will be a mess till all the work in the area is finished, I guess, but even so it's a much more pleasant area to walk around than it used to be.

[ab29]

On 17/02/2025 at 10:42, Sue said:

Sadly I think if a previous petition had no effect, things are unlikely to be different now.

Whatever the reason was for changing the route presumably is still the same?

Do you know what it was? TfL must have had data to back it up, surely?

It can't have been just a random Friday afternoon decision made out of the blue to cause maximum inconvenience to people from East Dulwich trying to get to and from London Bridge/Guys without having to change buses when there are problems with the trains?

"random Friday afternoon decision made out of the blue" - no, it is money - as it alway is - who cares about people?

[Sue]

21 hours ago, ab29 said:

"random Friday afternoon decision made out of the blue" - no, it is money - as it alway is - who cares about people?

I didn't seriously think it was a random decision - it was obviously based on some kind of data.

What was the financial reason that the 40 route was changed?

[exdulwicher]

21 hours ago, ab29 said:

"random Friday afternoon decision made out of the blue" - no, it is money - as it alway is - who cares about people?

Given that there was a consultation on the route changes, that would make the "random decision" thing impossible by definition. Buses in London (in fact almost everywhere) are subsidised so it doesn't really make much difference if you're subsidising it to go this way or that way.

I posted the reasons for the changes above but here it is again:

On 18/02/2025 at 19:40, exdulwicher said:

Back in about 2018, TfL had a consultation on a number of bus route changes, mostly to get rid of some longer routes (which are much more subject to delays than shorter ones) and also to prevent a mass of buses all terminating in and around Strand / Trafalgar Square / Oxford Circus.

So the 40 got withdrawn between Aldgate and Elephant & Castle and was rerouted to Clerkenwell Green via Blackfriars Bridge and Ludgate Circus to replace route 45.

At the same time, TfL introduced the Hopper Fare which meant that if you subsequently had to change buses as a result of the route alterations, you still only got charged the one flat rate, equivalent to taking just the one bus.

Route changes can come about for any number of reasons. Add capacity, begin to serve a new housing development or business / employment area, stop serving a no-longer-used area (maybe somewhere undergoing redevelopment for example), maintain / increase / reduce service frequency...

TfL has reams of data on bus usage, timings, patronage, positioning, network efficiency and so on.