Transport issues between London Bridge/central London and East Dulwich

[Sue]

On 22/02/2025 at 01:55, Dulwich dweller said:

The 78 from London Bridge to Peckham Rye is a much quicker route than going via the Elephant and Camberwell.

I  just looked this up.

The 78 doesn't seem to stop anywhere very near  London Bridge? Is my geography all wrong?

It's also quite a long walk from Nigel Road to ED, depending on where in ED you live!

I have no idea why whoever put this route online seems to think that the stations are at the Nigel Road bus stop and not the Peckham Rye Station bus stop 🤣

Does nobody at TfL (or whoever does these) not actually check them before they put them into the public domain?! 

Edited February 25 by Sue

[OutOfFocus]

2 hours ago, Sue said:

I have no idea why whoever put this route online seems to think that the stations are at the Nigel Road bus stop and not the Peckham Rye Station bus stop 🤣

Possibly a legacy from when no buses went down Rye Lane, Nigel road would have been a the closest.

There may be an argument that the diversion of 40 assumes an easy change to other buses, which isnt the case going southbound.  How long are the building works at elephant going on for?  The stop has been moved twice. One for GLA rather than Southwark

[exdulwicher]

On 23/02/2025 at 21:40, Sue said:

What route does that take?

From London Bridge you'd have to walk a short distance along Tooley Street to the junction of Tower Bridge Street and get on it there. The 78 comes from Liverpool Street over Tower Bridge then down to Peckham via the back of Bermondsey and the Old Kent Road. Kind of a roundabout route but worth knowing as a back up.

The TfL Journey Planner is a useful site as that will often find alternatives if one mode of transport (or one particular stop / line etc) is out of action: https://tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journey/

The trick is not to be too prescriptive with it. Use general areas rather than exact postcodes otherwise it'll be too focussed on getting you to an exact point - if you just specify "Dulwich" it will look at options to North, East and West Dulwich stations, bus routes that go through Dulwich in general rather than "this stop in particular".

Hope that helps.

[Sue]

9 hours ago, exdulwicher said:

From London Bridge you'd have to walk a short distance along Tooley Street to the junction of Tower Bridge Street and get on it there. The 78 comes from Liverpool Street over Tower Bridge then down to Peckham via the back of Bermondsey and the Old Kent Road. Kind of a roundabout route but worth knowing as a back up.

The TfL Journey Planner is a useful site as that will often find alternatives if one mode of transport (or one particular stop / line etc) is out of action: https://tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journey/

The trick is not to be too prescriptive with it. Use general areas rather than exact postcodes otherwise it'll be too focussed on getting you to an exact point - if you just specify "Dulwich" it will look at options to North, East and West Dulwich stations, bus routes that go through Dulwich in general rather than "this stop in particular".

Hope that helps.

Thanks.

I have used the 78 on occasion, but not to get to and from London Bridge. It does indeed take quite a roundabout route.

I usually use Google maps set to public transport, but I will try the TfL site as well if stuck, to see if that comes up with different options.

[malumbu]

There's a lot of talk about long bus journeys.  Generally buses are used for short journeys, as there will usually be a faster mode of public transport.  When I occasionally got the 185 into Pimlico for work very few of the passengers did more than two or three miles.  Whilst it is annoying if you have to change I understand why routes eg 159   Streatham to West Hampstead, were cut in two.

Hopefully we all know why the 159 was so famous.

[Dulwich dweller]

22 hours ago, Sue said:

e 78 doesn't seem to stop anywhere very near  London Bridge? Is my geography all wrong?

It's also quite a long walk from Nigel Road to ED, depending on where in ED you live

Fair enough. I got it mixed up with 47. 78 passes Tooley Street at the other en It doesn't take long to get to Peckham because it literally cuts through Peckham. I understand why you go via the elephant albeit a tad longer to do so. I had the 484 in mind to carry on your journey from Peckham Rye but only if you're based near East Dulwich rail station.

[OutOfFocus]

20 hours ago, OutOfFocus said:

Possibly a legacy from when no buses went down Rye Lane, Nigel road would have been a the closest.

 

I looked at TFL's website - lots of ways of contacting them but none  I couldn't see away of contacting about issues on website (in this case duff data). Anyone able to suggest the "least wrong place".

[Sue]

1 hour ago, Dulwich dweller said:

Fair enough. I got it mixed up with 47. 78 passes Tooley Street at the other en It doesn't take long to get to Peckham because it literally cuts through Peckham. I understand why you go via the elephant albeit a tad longer to do so. I had the 484 in mind to carry on your journey from Peckham Rye but only if you're based near East Dulwich rail station.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood you, but the 47 doesn't seem to be much help as a step in the journey to get to East Dulwich from London Bridge?

Also, the 484 doesn't just stop at ED station? It also stops at Goose Green and Oakhurst Grove (the Oakhurst Grove stop is near the bottom end of Crystal Palace Road).

If memory serves,  the  12 and the 197 also go from Peckham Rye to East Dulwich?

[OutOfFocus]

Remind me - when did the change to 40 happen. It is a reasonable to ask TFL to review the change in practice. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

The change to the number 40 (i.e. no longer going to London bridge) was a long time ago - I think more than 5 years ago?

[OutOfFocus]

6 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

The change to the number 40 (i.e. no longer going to London bridge) was a long time ago - I think more than 5 years ago?

Wikipedia takes you to https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/tfl-bus-routes-scrapped-16134311 2019 (BC - Before COVID)

[Dulwich dweller]

On 26/02/2025 at 09:46, Sue said:

On 26/02/2025 at 07:54, Dulwich dweller said:

from Peckham Rye but only if you're based near East Dulwich rail station.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood you, but the 47 doesn't seem to be much help as a step in the journey to get to East Dulwich from London Bridge

Yes you've misunderstood. I didn't suggest you use the 47.

 

On 26/02/2025 at 09:46, Sue said:

 

Also, the 484 doesn't just stop at ED station? It also stops at Goose Green and Oakhurst Grove (the Oakhurst Grove stop is near the bottom end of Crystal Palace Road).

I'm aware of that. It has to get to ED station some how

[Sue]

10 hours ago, Dulwich dweller said:

 

I'm aware of that. It has to get to ED station some how

I think we are talking at cross purposes?

You said "I had the 484 in mind to carry on your journey from Peckham Rye, but only if you are based near East Dulwich Station."

 I'm really confused now! How does East Dulwich Station come into it, then? 

Which direction of travel are you talking about?

Edited March 3 by Sue

[Dulwich dweller]

On 03/03/2025 at 14:54, Sue said:

I think we are talking at cross purposes?

You said "I had the 484 in mind to carry on your journey from Peckham Rye, but only if you are based near East Dulwich Station."

 I'm really confused now! How does East Dulwich Station come into it, then? 

Which direction of travel are you talking about?

Meaning it's not much use if you're based up Lordship Lane direction and not on its route in Dulwich. The station being almost the last bit Dulwich that it serves. 

The direction of travel I had in mind was from Nunhead Lane where the 78 stops near the 484 stop on the Rye and heads. towards East Dulwich Station.  

 

[Sue]

On 08/03/2025 at 04:04, Dulwich dweller said:

Meaning it's not much use if you're based up Lordship Lane direction and not on its route in Dulwich. The station being almost the last bit Dulwich that it serves. 

The direction of travel I had in mind was from Nunhead Lane where the 78 stops near the 484 stop on the Rye and heads. towards East Dulwich Station.  

 

I'm still quite confused, but never mind!

I suppose it depends on exactly where you live and how far you are willing to walk!

If you are getting the 484 in that direction (ie heading towards Camberwell Green)  you can get off at Oakhurst Grove and walk up Crystal Palace Road.

Or you can get off at Goose Green and walk up Lordship Lane (or get another bus) or walk round the back of the EDT and then up Crawthew Grove.

It  all seems like quite a complicated way to get back, but then with the loss of that part of  the 40 route, any way is now, if the trains aren't running as scheduled.

Or you can get a 12 from Peckham up Barry Road.

Edited March 10 by Sue

[jazzer]

If I wasn't confused before, I am now.  

[Sue]

9 minutes ago, jazzer said:

If I wasn't confused before, I am now.  

I lost track of where  this thread was going some time ago 🤣🤣🤣

[The Urbanite]

Just seen this thread.

 

The 40 was changed as part of an exercise to reduce excess capacity in Central London. This meant some routes were changed, or lost.

 

The 40 might have been withdrawn entirely if it wasn’t for the fact that it was actually much busier at peak times between Dulwich and Denmark Hill than it was in the Central London area. So it remained and the 35 got a frequency increase to match the demand from the Camberwell and Walworth corridor to the London Bridge corridor. Other routes serving Central London were more heavily cut back, such as the 45, 100 and 388, the 40 was chosen to service the Blackfriars corridor. It was also considered there was an accessible rail link between East Dulwich and London Bridge and the 40 provided access to the 35 and 343. 

 

The 176 did run to Oxford Circus but truthfully it was not always great. By the mid 2000s the buses would get stuck in that section and it wasn’t out of the ordinary for it to take a bus 60+ minutes to get from Tottenham Court Road to Oxford Circus and back, way less than walking pace. Oxford Street was absolutely ram packed with buses. The cutback to Tottenham Court Road was meant to be temporary, but it was made permanent.

 

Not all doom and gloom - last year the 176 got a frequency increase in the evenings and Sunday shopping hours, because it was easily proven that it was extremely well utilised with longer distance trips between Central London and Dulwich.

Edited Saturday at 13:35 by The Urbanite

[Cancerian]

All part of Sadiq Khan’s crazy plan to change Oxford Street! 

[malumbu]

Pedestrianising Oxford Street is long overdue.  I recall the fuss made when this was done in Trafalgar Square but now we'd never go back to how it was 

[Sue]

18 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Pedestrianising Oxford Street is long overdue.  I recall the fuss made when this was done in Trafalgar Square but now we'd never go back to how it was 

Whilst I agree, it's a very long walk from one end of Oxford Street to the other, and getting a bus is much less hassle than the underground.

[The Urbanite]

On 26/04/2025 at 23:25, Cancerian said:

All part of Sadiq Khan’s crazy plan to change Oxford Street! 

It was originally due to the excavation works related to the construction of the Elizabeth Line. This resulted in various buildings being demolished, like the London Astoria. It also resulted in the left turn from Charing Cross Road into Oxford Street being lost. The 176 was the only route that did that move. The options were either to divert it, incurring the cost of one or two extra vehicles to sit in the West End traffic, or cut it back to Tottenham Court Road.

 

The works went on for a few years but when the time came, yes, there was a push to thin out the sanguine-esque ribbon of buses pootling along Oxford Street and the temporary cutback became permanent. The law of diminishing returns applied where the volume of buses along there made the journey so slow, it was quicker to walk. Now there are far fewer routes on Oxford Street, the buses can actually progress at a reasonable speed and it takes a fraction of the time it used to to get a bus from one end of Oxford Street to the other!

Edited Monday at 21:09 by The Urbanite

[jazzer]

On 27/04/2025 at 09:44, malumbu said:

Pedestrianising Oxford Street is long overdue.  I recall the fuss made when this was done in Trafalgar Square but now we'd never go back to how it was 

Oh no it's not

[Cancerian]

On 27/04/2025 at 09:44, malumbu said:

Pedestrianising Oxford Street is long overdue.  I recall the fuss made when this was done in Trafalgar Square but now we'd never go back to how it was 

A fuss made?  You’ve probably only been a cyclist for a few years and if longer then good luck to you. I’ve  been driving since 1981 and it’s the best thing ever. Why should cyclists be prioritised over car drivers?  The West End would be destroyed. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

Not sure if you're arguing that the pedestrianisation of the north side of Trafalgar square was a bad thing, but I can't imagine many people would want to reverse it. So much better now.

Most provincial high streets went down the pedestrianisation route 40 years ago or more. Crazy that the UKs 'premier shopping street' is effectively a car park. Of course large parts of it should be pedestrianised and landscaped to turn it back in to a destination, rather than the messy street in decline that it is now.

Soho should also be pedestrianised.