EDT - Under Refurbishment

[granadaland]

Looks like it’s being gutted.

 

Edited February 11 by Joe
Changed title to say Under Refurbishment

[CPR Dave]

Hope they keep it looking like a pub rather than the airport lounge that the Bishop seems to have become!

[Joe]

It is under refurbishment from yesterday until sometime in March. Announced on their Instagram page:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DFps9vGoNHh/

[Sue]

It was iconic 😭

But over the years some changes had already been made which detracted from the original  atmosphere.  

In my opinion.

[Insuflo]

I’m not sure I’d go as far as ‘iconic’, Sue.  Like many of us, I think it was at its’ best late last century. Since Antic went bust again the price of a pint has got higher every time I walk in there. 

[Sue]

Passed it earlier and looked through the window.

Horrified to see that they have removed the beautiful tiled floor.

I suppose it's too much to hope for that they will replace it unharmed, or indeed at all 😭

  On 11/02/2025 at 15:20, Insuflo said:

I’m not sure I’d go as far as ‘iconic’, Sue.  Like many of us, I think it was at its’ best late last century. 

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When I moved here around 1991, it was one of the few decent pubs, if memory serves. 

Unless you wanted a fight 😂

And it had some great music and comedy upstairs. I saw Eddie (sic) Izzard there. 

They also used to have live music downstairs, separating off that room at the side with a makeshift velvet curtain.

I wonder if they intend to combine the downstairs space with the presently unused space next door, and have an inside entrance to the upstairs space, instead of a separate entrance on the street?

The pub is certainly in a prime position!

Edited February 11 by Sue

[PickledPorcupine]

It is having its whole character and inside ripped out and changed to suit the mundane, bland middle class enclave it now finds itself in. Its been rubbish for ages anyway, Antic have been treading water since the pandemic and couldnt afford much upkeep of their pubs whilst pushing prices up. By the time they did finally go bankrupt it was almost as expensive as all the other spectaularly boring and stuck up pubs nearby, and was filled with families looking awkward if a nearby Hooray Henry uttered a swear word. Whoever called it 'iconic' must literally only ever visit the EDT and not have a clue about public houses, as there are thousands of pubs across London that would be more deserving of the 'iconic' label 🤣. 

I expect there be will be focus on food, 'small plates' etc. No more sport- apart from 'rugger' of course! The middle classes will love it, theyll merrily trundle in with a pram and a dog in tow, remark about how different it was to the 'EDT', but then not even flinch when dropping £100+ on a few plates of roast dinner and a round of drinks. 

The only remotely decent pub left in the area is The Castle. Im actually amazed it is still going in its current guise. They are part of a small pubco and their most recent opening on Kirkdale in Sydenham they tried to go more upmarket, but its always empty. How long before The Castle too is swept away and rebuilt to suit the moneyed middle classes?  

 

Edited February 13 by PickledPorcupine

[malumbu]

Two examples of pubs that have been trashed - the one by the cemetery with the stupid name on Forest Hill Road.  Awful place, one of my least favourite pubs in the world.  And the Dartmouth in Forest Hill, not stepped in since it became the Meet Licker.  Yes another name I hate. Obviously others will disagree....

Two other pubs that were spoiled following the closure of the Young's brewery and breaking up the brewing and pub owning, the Dulwich Woodhouse and the Clock, not sure about the latter since the refurb.  I go into three of the above every couple of years ago, trying to have an open mind but surprised that they were even worse than expected.

Meanwhile lease is up at the Blythe and we are holding our breath and keeping our fingers crossed...

Disagree with some on the EDT, when I first went to the comedy upstairs, downstairs was a little leary.  Long time ago 

Well there is always the Castle 😊 

[Sue]

I stopped going to the EDT when I was meeting a friend there one afternoon last year.

The place was empty except for me, and the bar staff suddenly put on awful music,  really loudly.

When I politely asked them to turn it down a bit, they turned it up.

I took my pint outside, and when my friend arrived we went to the Palmerston instead.

Haven't been back there since. Well, can't now anyway 🤣

When I said it was iconic, the emphasis was on the "was".

It was once genuinely quirky, before they started messing about with it. It was different from the other ED pubs at the time, which were - without any exception I can think of except maybe the Castle  - awful.

The Castle later went through a sticky patch when they kicked out the lovely manager who had been there for years and brought in someone who wasn't exactly welcoming.

We put some stuff on the juke box, which after a couple of tracks was turned off from the bar (with our money in it) and the worst kind (my opinion only, obviously) of sentimental Irish music put on instead, at full volume.

How to win friends and ensure your customers come back 🤣

Luckily the manager changed again, and all the staff there now are lovely ❤️

I really hope the Castle doesn't get gentrified (or the Blythe, but that's not in East Dulwich,  so less at risk, I would have thought?)

[Cyclemonkey]

To defend the new incarnation of the Dartmouth Arms for a moment - it's not really a pub any more, it's a burger restaurant and is pretty decent at that. 

It was pretty crap when it was a pub.

[malumbu]

Why did you not like it? the front bar kept some charm.  And the back was the first gastro pub in SE23 at a time well before any sort of gentrification.  As now witnessed by bistros, beer shops and coffee shops.  Albeit always lagging behind LL

[PickledPorcupine]

The Dartmouth Arms is crap, an expensive burger place, and The Bird in Hand also in Forest Hill was ruined about a year and half ago by our friends Antic, who seemed to have weasled out of their bankruptcy by making up another company. Both of them however are far better than the pretentious, stuffy pubs in East Dulwich full of Ralph Lauren jumper around the shoulder types. 

Im sure the Blythe will be fine. Although if Con puts his lager prices up anymore ill be going less and less. I presume if their lease is up for renewal the rent will go up and inevitably consequently so to the drink prices. 

[Sephiroth]

very confident early post from PP there - almost reassuringly familiar with it's heavy class chippery

I miss sitting in EDT watching Obama inauguration - how very far so much has fallen

Always enjoyed my evenings (and in case of 2002 World Cup very early mornings) in The Castle as well

 

[PickledPorcupine]

  On 13/02/2025 at 12:01, malumbu said:

 

Meanwhile lease is up at the Blythe and we are holding our breath and keeping our fingers crossed...

 

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Just had a bit of a dig around and can see that the lease is up for offer rather than renewal. Is Con retiring then? Hopefully whoever takes it on it keeps its Irish roots....

https://www.stonegatepubpartners.co.uk/find-a-pub/blythe-hill-tavern-forest_030276

[malumbu]

Assume he is retiring but when I see him I will tell him that he is letting down so many of us.  I doubt if he will change his mind!  Hopefully staff will be kept on including those living on the premises 

He used to run two pubs in East Dulwich 

[CPR Dave]

When the Castle goes bust the building will converted into flats. 

[Sephiroth]

didn't realise Blythe was already a Stonegate pub - they won't have made things easy for him

[PickledPorcupine]

  On 13/02/2025 at 16:30, Sephiroth said:

didn't realise Blythe was already a Stonegate pub - they won't have made things easy for him

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Yes i always assumed it was a freehold. I wouldnt blame him if he just wants to retire now being at the mercy of that crowd. 

[Sue]

  On 13/02/2025 at 16:29, CPR Dave said:

When the Castle goes bust the building will converted into flats. 

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Why do you think the Castle will go bust?

It's been pretty busy whenever I've been in there lately.

[NewWave]

  On 13/02/2025 at 14:02, PickledPorcupine said:

The Dartmouth Arms is crap, an expensive burger place, and The Bird in Hand also in Forest Hill was ruined about a year and half ago by our friends Antic, who seemed to have weasled out of their bankruptcy by making up another company. Both of them however are far better than the pretentious, stuffy pubs in East Dulwich full of Ralph Lauren jumper around the shoulder types. 

Im sure the Blythe will be fine. Although if Con puts his lager prices up anymore ill be going less and less. I presume if their lease is up for renewal the rent will go up and inevitably consequently so to the drink prices. 

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I actually LIKE the Bird In Hand-mainly because its not been gentrified and has nice staff.

A lot of locals go there and its not pretentious they even let some elderly people that used to frequent Weatherspoons sit and drink pots of tea, read papers bring their own buiscuits and just hang out.

Its a real 'local' and I just wish it was busier.

[Sue]

  On 13/02/2025 at 14:02, PickledPorcupine said:

Both of them however are far better than the pretentious, stuffy pubs in East Dulwich full of Ralph Lauren jumper around the shoulder types.

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If you recognise a Ralph Lauren jumper, you must be one of those types yourself 🤣🤣🤣

Edited February 13 by Sue

[Dulwich dweller]

  On 13/02/2025 at 11:26, PickledPorcupine said:

It is having its whole character and inside ripped out and changed to suit the mundane, bland middle class enclave it now finds itself in. Its been rubbish for ages anyway, Antic have been treading water since the pandemic and couldnt afford much upkeep of their pubs whilst pushing prices up. By the time they did finally go bankrupt it was almost as expensive as all the other spectaularly boring and stuck up pubs nearby, and was filled with families looking awkward if a nearby Hooray Henry uttered a swear word. Whoever called it 'iconic' must literally only ever visit the EDT and not have a clue about public houses, as there are thousands of pubs across London that would be more deserving of the 'iconic' label 🤣. 

I expect there be will be focus on food, 'small plates' etc. No more sport- apart from 'rugger' of course! The middle classes will love it, theyll merrily trundle in with a pram and a dog in tow, remark about how different it was to the 'EDT', but then not even flinch when dropping £100+ on a few plates of roast dinner and a round of drinks. 

The only remotely decent pub left in the area is The Castle. Im actually amazed it is still going in its current guise. They are part of a small pubco and their most recent opening on Kirkdale in Sydenham they tried to go more upmarket, but its always empty. How long before The Castle too is swept away and rebuilt to suit the moneyed middle classes?  

 

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Park life.

[PickledPorcupine]

  On 13/02/2025 at 16:58, Sue said:

Why do you think the Castle will go bust?

It's been pretty busy whenever I've been in there lately.

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The Castle will eventually go bust as the main customer base that props up these type of pubs throughout the week are older men, they are naturally dying out (faster than most due to alcoholism) and not being replaced by the next generation. The latest generation of drinking age drink much less and get their kicks out of social media sites/apps. If you think pub closures are bad now, wait until in about 20 years times. The ones that will survive will the the semi resturant ones that the middle class can afford. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

  On 14/02/2025 at 09:48, PickledPorcupine said:

The Castle will eventually go bust as the main customer base that props up these type of pubs throughout the week are older men, they are naturally dying out (faster than most due to alcoholism) and not being replaced by the next generation. The latest generation of drinking age drink much less and get their kicks out of social media sites/apps. If you think pub closures are bad now, wait until in about 20 years times. The ones that will survive will the the semi resturant ones that the middle class can afford. 

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I can't say about the next 20 years (you may be right), but right now the Castle is a lot busier than it has been for a long while, and has a lot more, younger people visiting. I suspect that prices are a big part in that, as it's significantly cheaper than other local boozers. 

[malumbu]

  On 14/02/2025 at 09:48, PickledPorcupine said:

The Castle will eventually go bust as the main customer base that props up these type of pubs throughout the week are older men, they are naturally dying out (faster than most due to alcoholism) and not being replaced by the next generation. The latest generation of drinking age drink much less and get their kicks out of social media sites/apps. If you think pub closures are bad now, wait until in about 20 years times. The ones that will survive will the the semi restaurant ones that the middle class can afford. 

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This isn't twenty years hence, this has been happening since the beginning of the millennium.  Brewery and pub chains have been selling off their wet pubs (ie ones that don't do food) and many have closed to be redeveloped as domestic properties.  The MMC report that broke up the power of the big breweries had an unexpected outcome in that it has contributed  to a decline in the number of pubs.  Tastes have changed, we drink less, and  where we do drink this is more often at home.  There is more choice on the telly, and other on screen activities such as what I am doing now.

Con is retiring and I hope the Blythe stays loosely the same.  I had a chat with him tonight and will play a song for the bar staff.  I'll keep drinking in the Castle, so hope this continues to trade.