Consultation on banning cash payment on TfL buses

[KidKruger]

As long as coinage is a valid payment method it should be accommodated by buses.

The alternative is some admin process that doesn't necessarily always meet travellers' needs.

[Otta]

I never said losing, I meant that cash is more likely to be stolen.

Also you say it would have been pointless to buy another Oyster, but I suspect it would have worked out cheaper than paying cash for a couple of weeks.

Actually perhaps not because it's school holidays, but if she'd been travelling to and from school every day...

[Otta]

Also, kids can't buy "a peice, 2 wings, and chips" with an oyster card. They may be tempted to use their ?2 emergency bus money for just that.

(I'm basing this on the crowds of kids iutside the chicken shops in Newham every day).

Not that I have anything against dirty chicken, I love it!

[LadyDeliah]

We need the options though Otta. I work full time, organising a new Oyster for my daughter for a week is not at all practical for one or yeo journeys.

Aldo what about when you've not topped up your Oyster and have something urgent to get to. Getting off the bus becsuse you've reslised theres not enough money, hunting got a Newsagents that is open (could be after 6pm) and getting back to the bus stop to catcj s bus, is likely to make you late. Cash as a back up in that situation is vital. Not everyone of as organised as you cashless people clearly are.

If there were paper ticket machines and Oyster top up places at bus stops, then maybe you could argue that there is no need for cash, but being stuck in the middle of no-where at night, unable to top up your Oyster or use/have cash is every woman's nightmare.

[LadyDeliah]

Also the arsehole who suggested cash should be done away with so he doesn't have to subsidise a more expensive admin process, (despite concerns for safety) I guess would be the kind of person who objects to paying for education or NHS services if he doesn't personally use them.

Transport is subsidised by taxes despite being privately run, because it is recognised as being an important public service. Something we all pay for, not just commuters.

[KidKruger]

LadyD come on, if you don't agree with someone's opinion there's no need to abuse them !

[Otta]

With regards bot having credit on your Oyster, I've always thought they shoukd give you a couoke if quid credit. like the emergency allowance on the leccy meter.

I think they should do that whether they do away with cash or not.

[Applespider]

I do think it's much better now that you can use a wireless debit card on the bus. On the couple of occasions where I've needed to hop on a bus and realised my Oyster is at home, that's been a better option than cash for me - not least since it charges you Oyster rates...

[sedm]

I get the bus every day & always use my contactless card.

On a couple of occasions it hasn't worked - and not because I didn't have ?? in my account before you ask, because of some unknown error.

That's why I think it's really important people can still pay by cash

[KidKruger]

The focus should be getting as many people as possible on the buses, not creating these schemes which make certain people in certain circumstances unable to use the bus.

[KalamityKel]

I assume you mean "The focus should be getting as many people SAFELY as possible on the buses" KK? We wouldn't want a repeat of those bendy bus thingamys now would we?!

The empathsis is too much on speeding up the service to make it "quicker"? why? does 30 seconds (over generalising based on no statistical fact of course) saved each stop from potential cash fares really make much of a difference? What about the time taken when passengers ask for directions, take time when boarding either through disability, lots of shopping/luggage, pushchairs, wheelchair users with the ramp having to be used, over boarding of passengers? If anything these examples slow up the service yet are a necessary part of travel. To say banning cash fares would improve time by suggesting it's time consuming is unrealistic. To say also that it would be saving on admin is unrealistic. Surely more time and resources would be required to administer oyster card refunds and payment queries/issues.

[KidKruger]

FFS - I wasn't suggesting it is done "as dangerously as possible" !!

How do you extract the safety element from such an innocent statement ?

The thread is about cash v cashless isn't it ?

I think it's obvious that my only point is we should not restrict access to buses by stopping cash transactions when boarding.

[Otta]

If they get rid of cash, it will inconvenience people for a bit, and some people will be caught out. Then people will get used to it and plan appropriately.

They shouldn't not do something because a few people can't remember to take their Oyster cards with them to work.

[LondonMix]

This thread is hilarious. The fact is, once you need to have your Oyster topped up, you will more likely remember to top it up. Central London has been cashless for YEARS. I don't think extending this is going to lead to the rape and pillage feared by those against the policy being brought to the suburbs.

First, if a child loses their Oyster it is certainly cheaper to get them a pay as you go Oyster than pay cash. As has previously been mentioned, any unused credit and the initial cost of the Oyster are REFUNDED when you turn the card in.

You can top up your Oyster Card online in addition to being able to do so at News Agents and stations. If you forget, then you'll be late for what you are doing. Just like if you forget your keys or your phone and need to turn back. Sometimes, forgetfulness has consequences. That's life.

If you lose your Oyster, have cash but no way to acquire a new Oyster because its the middle of the night and you need to get home and you are unsafe then I can see how this could be problematic, particularly in the suburbs. In central London there are more New Agents open late so it might not have posed the same issue it could pose in Greater London. Bus drivers on the night bus should be allowed to use their discretion (and in my experience already do) in these circumstances to let those they perceive to be vulnerable ride for free if they get picked up outside of Central London.

[Otta]

Well said.

[maxxi]

Central London may have been cashless for years but yesterday two sets of tourists boarded a #12 on Regent St (just north of Oxford Cirus) and paid in cash to get to Westminster - one family group asked for "Two adults and one child please" for which they were charged just under a fiver.

Interesting to note that (ime) general enquiries to bus drivers from visitors (particularly where there are language difficulties) hold up journeys in town far more than payments.

[Growlybear]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > You can top up your Oyster Card online in addition

> to being able to do so at News Agents and

> stations. >

>

Whilst it's great to be able to top up your Oyster card online, it's not much help if you don't use trains or the underground and only use buses because you have to activate the top up at a machine before it's credited to your account.

[Otta]

It's not that big a deal to nip in to a station ONCE to activate it surely.

[Growlybear]

I don't use buses on a daily basis, and never use trains or the underground. It would be a long way out of my way to go to a station just to activate an online purchase, and would actually be much easier to top up at a newsagent. My point was that topping up online isn't necessarily a solution to people who may otherwise need to make an occasional cash payment for a bus fare when they've not been in a position to top up an Oyster card.

[StraferJack]

Get an oyster

Register it

Set it to top up automatically online (you choose amount)

No more faffing Around with newsagents, cash, machines.

If it gets lost or stolen you can immediately block it and all money on it gets transferred to new card

It is so immeasurably better and more convenient, anyone saying "it's a faff" is a fool to themselves.

[LondonMix]

Well said

The truth is, if you know you'll need to travel top it up at a news agent. If you don't live near a station and are concerned about emergency travel when the news agent is closed, just always keep a few quid on your oyster in the same way you keep a few quid in your wallet in case of emergency given your circumstances. As SJ mentions this can be done automatically online without you ever having to remember to do it once you've set it up if remembering to keep an emergency balance seems too much effort.

[KalamityKel]

Growlybear Wrote:

> Whilst it's great to be able to top up your Oyster

> card online, it's not much help if you don't use

> trains or the underground and only use buses

> because you have to activate the top up at a

> machine before it's credited to your account.

Whenever I've purchased new cards online (and I have a fair number of them for the family) I've never gone to a train/tube station to activate it... just board the bus and touch in.

[katanita]

Don't think that works for auto-top up, see https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/link/0002.do. It's why I never use it, much as I'd like to, I almost never make tube journeys. It's a pain.

Also, last time I tried to top up my oyster past tube closing time, the shops that do it that were open said they couldn't top it up past a certain time, which seems bizarre. Was in the centre of town, thankfully, so could buy a paper ticket from the machine. So I hope they change that if they are going to ban cash payments. Would also have been stuck last week when in a hurry and the newsagents was myseriously shut. Can't see it makes much of a difference to bus speeds allowing the odd cash payment, really, and can think of many instances when it would make life difficult.

[Annasfield]

If TFL want to do this, they need to change the minimum amount people can put on their cards. Some people can't afford to have ?3.80 on their oyster just so they could top up and use the bus.

What's the total value they reckon just sits on Oyster card and is unused? Disgraceful really.

[StraferJack]

?3.80 is just a few bus journeys. Who isn't going to need to do that in london?

Or the tube/train equivelant?

I don't understand that argument at all