The dark side of the forum. (stupid, aggressive "we'll ruin you on the EDF" comments)

[AndyS]

After an incident that happened last night, I feel the need to put up a post to highlight just how ridiculous some users of the forum can be. I appreciate that as an opening line that will put some people off and I will possibly be bombarded with all sorts of heckles for it but please take the take to read what I have to say.

As a resident of East Dulwich, I am fully aware of the reputation that the forum has developed amongst the locals. Some people love it, some people hate it, some people turn to it for a laugh and others use it as a resource. Sadly however, some people use it as a threat to local businesses in order to try and get their own way. As a bartender, I have helped out behind a few bars in East Dulwich and sadly behind each and every one I have faced the 'I'm gonna post about you on the East Dulwich Forum' threat, usually when we have refused somebody service for being drunk/rude or aggressive. The worst example occurred last night when I refused service to 4 middle aged Dulwich Dad types.

Before they had even ordered a drink I had asked them to tone down their language, (every other word was c##t, f##k, etc). Yes bad language is tolerated and expected when alcohol is involved but there are limits to what is deemed acceptable, especially when other customers leave the bar as a consequence. The bad language continued along with antagonizing of staff and other customers so the group were informed that they would no longer be served and were asked to move on. Their response was to launch into a torrent of abuse and follow it up with 'we're going to name and shame and personally ruin you on the East Dulwich Forum.'

I appreciate that these four gentlemen are not representative of all Forum users but the threat of 'we'll say bad things about you on the forum' is something that is commonly thrown around in East Dulwich when people don't get their own way. I know from speaking to a lot of business owners around ED that a lot of people genuinely believe it is a threat that will make businesses bow down to their demands. If you are a forum user who has ever used this line, please consider how ridiculous it makes you sound. Common courtesy will get you much further than such childish threats.

[StraferJack]

Good post Andy

I don?t think it?s particular to this forum, I suspect it happens in any local forum (not to mention global sites like TripAdvisor)

I have heard this threat from people a couple of times now but I would counter it with ?please do, and I will make sure I reply to it on the forum as well?

Over the years, many business owners have engaged on here with some grudge holders and it?s pretty obvious straight away who is in the right. So my advice is.. don?t see it as a downside, see it as a way of engaging with existing and potential customers

[Sue]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Over the years, many business owners have engaged

> on here with some grudge holders and it?s pretty

> obvious straight away who is in the right.

xxxxxxx

I was about to post the same thing.

If these threatening people choose to complain on here, they will almost certainly just make themselves look ridiculous - as no doubt they will realise in the cold light of day.

Seems like there were quite a few witnesses to the incident, too, some of whom probably read/post on the forum.

[fl0wer]

You wrote "I appreciate... these four gentlemen are not ...."

They cannot have been gentlemen, don't even grace them with the name. Those who think it is OK to be rude to people serving them are invariably what my nanny used to call 'jumped up'.

[Administrator]

Yep, good post Andy. Those people are not representatives of the forum, in fact we don't have any representatives except those awesome moderators that work in the background.

It's not the intention of the forum ruin any business and we can't control what people say when they're pissed up in a bar. Come to think of it there are a couple of businesses who think that we should have control of what people say in the 'real world' but that's just daft. When we're made award of any false and malicious postings on here they are removed and we do help the authorities when asked to do so.

Anyway I'm sorry that they did that, it is the 'dark side of the forum' as you say and thanks for posting about your experience. I'm pretty sure the forum has helped local businesses a hell of a lot more lot more than it's hindered and it's a shame that some abuse its good work.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Good post. I was in the Bar last night and know what you are talking about. I had been keeping an eye to see if anything was posted by the "gents" in question to give a bit of balance to how they were behaving and you not serving them.

[computedshorty]

To be a eastdulwichforum member, it is advisable to be anonymous, too much of your personal life and occupation could be used to pinpoint you, and show you in a poor situation, or at least in their eyes, we get to know members by their posts, I personally draw my own opinion of a member, some are responsive to posts, others just want to challenge what is posted, my response is to just not answer any post that I do not agree with.

Inadvertently I have several times been referred to by my given name in a message, members realising this tell the member who has posted to remove the personal information this has always been done but those who have a good memory retain that name.

My thoughts are not to give your true name or your home or address.

Reading messages we soon find out where a member lives or works, his or her family and lifestyle.

If I were to read a message regarding another member my thoughts would be of the type of person that member is, placing a bad post not the one criticised.

I don't think that any message of that personal style would remain long before it would be deleted.

One should remember that they only remain a member if they follow the guide lines.

[steveo]

That would suggest you are just one person shorty

[yeknomyeknom]

I agree. The forum can be a scary place sometimes. Sometimes I rethink a simple post and re-read it several times, just to make sure no one will jump in and criticise it in some way. Many times I have seen a nice simple post start out only for some regular names to say something sarcastic or belittling in response. The family discussion area isn't like this at all though.

[tfwsoll]

Sorry you were subjected to that kind of abuse - I've worked with the public for more years than I care to remember and that kind of situation does rattle you, however experienced you are. There's always been the 'I'm going to the press about this' brigade but in the majority of cases their complaint didn't warrant any interest from the media. The internet does give people an instant audience for their opinions but luckily these kinds of forums tend to self-regulate and those that try and manipulate a situation are unmasked and shown up for the pillocks they are. In fact there was a similar situation where someone complained about the staff at a new bar that opened and another forum member, who had witnessed the incident, called them out for their foul mouthed tirade which had been conveniently left out of the original post.

[HonaloochieB]

"I'm gonna poshht shhuch bad shhtuff about you an' thish plashe" is the pissed-up mouth-breathers of SE22 equivalent of the "Don't you know who I am"? sub-Heat slebs response to not being admitted to a pop-up club night in, oh let's say Camberwell.

Andy, I hope the responses have given you some reassurance that the EDFers are not easily persuaded by a complaint/rant concerning a business and will follow up/challenge to sometimes a forensic degree any assertions made.

No disrespect to Catford but I reckon they might have been from there.

[HonaloochieB]

Actually, no all disrespect to Catford. Only good thing about it is it isn't Penge

[East of Dulwich]

I hadn't heard this line, but I'm glad Andy has posted this, and that he's had sympathetic support from the Administrator. My concern has been how in general, people have used the Forum to try and get revenge on local businesses often for trivial matters.

In one case, I felt bound to intervene over what was clearly an unjustified slur on one of my favourite local shops. I was pleased that on this occasion the administrator took the thread down. I think that a small minority people have to understand the difference between expressing an opinion and just being pettty and vindictaive.

So can I just take this opportunity to say that I haunt almost all the pubs and bars in East Dulwich and I have never experienced anything from the delightful bar staff other than courtesy and kindness far beyond the call of duty, often enduring with remarkalbe forbearance what must feel like hours of my droning on and on endlessly about how things were so much better in my day, and the music was so much better, and do people really pay that much for a bottle of beer these days...

[Cassius]

Andy - just to say that regular posters (and I know that I am not nearly as regular as I used to be) are well aware of people who suddenly turn up to moan/groan about a local business. Their motives are always more suspect than those of a regular who genuinely does receive poor service. Personally if I see a rather random rant against a local pub/shop/whatever, I nearly always look at previous posts to see just how long the ranter has been around for and to get a grasp of their previous posts.

Edited to add: on the other hand if a forum user does receive genuinely bad service then this thread should not stop them from letting others know. Obviously it is difficult to know in the first instance which is a moan that is deserved and which is vindictive, but I hope that any unfounded complaint will be obvious eventually.

[JohnL]

Drunkards are not normally malicious, just drunk, but the malicious person would be much

more sneaky with the 'character assassination' thing if it happened.

I think we have to make your own mind up - drawing inferences from many comments (the real

cowboys are usually self evident).

I've seen some forums with more aggressive virtual locals as well

[tomk]

I think the only response to someone saying 'I'm going to write about you on the EDF' is to quite literally piss yourself laughing. These were grown men, you say?!

[HonaloochieB]

And of course, make sure you ask them what username they post under.

If the reply is "I'm HonaloochieB and why have you not got a proper jukebox"?

Then I can only apologise profusely in advance.

[Jeremy]

Andy - you're right, it is a ridiculous threat to make. In fact, I can think of a few recent cases where people have made unreasonable complaints about local businesses, and they've been given pretty short shrift.

Next time it happens, I'd just call their bluff!

[maxxi]

Good work Andy - just a shame these 'gent' didn't post first (or have they?) so we'd know who they were (forum-wise). Comforting enough to imagine them seeing this thread and squirming a tad.

[pinecone]

nice to see the EDF held in such high regard by some.

[indiepanda]

Sorry to hear you've had such a negative experience of forumites Andy. The disadvantage of internet forums is it does give some bullies a very easy way of attacking people.

For what it's worth, as a long time member of the forum, I only take remotely seriously any criticism of a business if it comes from posters who I know are generally positive and in many cases have met in person. Some random rant just makes me roll my eyes. Even the best establishments listed on Trip Advisor sometimes have the odd bad review from someone who just enjoys a good whinge about nothing.

Has to be said the forum has been a massive positive for me about East Dulwich, from being the route to which I've met almost all my local friends to helping me sell old stuff, find tradesmen and various other services. But I am cautious about what threads I get involved in - life is too short for some arguments!

[red devil]

[Sue]

indiepanda Wrote:

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> Sorry to hear you've had such a negative

> experience of forumites Andy. The disadvantage of

> internet forums is it does give some bullies a

> very easy way of attacking people.

>

xxxxxxxx

On that wider issue, I was talking to somebody only last night who was saying that she won't post on this forum for fear of being set upon by the forum bullies. She has lived round here a long time, and I think it's very sad that she feels that way.

Whilst to some extent there is a fine line between expressing one's opinion and being perceived as a bully, I think it's clear that some people very often overstep the mark. And hiding behind a forum pseudonym makes it easier to do that.

As regards recommending or suggesting avoiding local businesses and tradespeople, sadly I have now become very cynical about posts doing either, particularly but not exclusively if the posters have either not posted before or have posted very little.

[StraferJack]

"being set upon by the forum bullies."

has anyone compiled a list of who the bullies are?

[unlurked]

I recall that the Cherry Tree pub had very bad comments made by EDF posters, and quite nasty hateful comments made about individuals there. That thread was allowed to continue for days.