Diverted 63 bus route - Marmora & Therapia Roads

[jonbateson]

It has been more noticeable in the evening, often 2-3 buses coming down therapia in convoy, this is getting a bit much, I would be interested in attending the meeting. Please advise on time/date..

[SkyofFire]

Residents of Marmora Road have received emails from Danny Hathaway (from Harriet Harman's office) and Gavin Edwards

Councillor for Peckham Rye (With Victoria Mills and Renata Hamvas)today in response to our calls and emails. Several people have also been phoned.

A meeting is being planned for some point next week - I'll be surprised if this actually happens. But the bus drivers ARE slowing down (after a campaign of speed awareness signs made by residents).

[Applespider]

Any humps in the road tend to increase vibrations in the houses nearby rather than reduce them. I am sure that the prior 'subsidence' in our house is more due to the speed humps in the road than simple earth movement. I'm also entirely unsurprised by the bus drivers ignoring any speed limits while off duty. There's a restriction on Wood Vale to stop large vehicles going along the LL end after 11pm but buses regularly go along around midnight.

[Mrs Nicklin]

Some fuel for your fire!

63 bus hits a car, blocking both Therapia and Scutari roads this morning.

[OD]

Oh no!? This is awful......I'm not surprised but didn't want to preempt this happening by saying how likely is was to happen.

My sympathies to the car owner.

[OD]

@skyoffire - as one of the residents that seem to be getting communications from the councillors, please can you (or anyone else who finds out) post the meeting details please.

Much appreciated.

OD

[dbboy]

As broadcast earlier today by Tfl at bus stops with update screens "63 buses are on diversion or subject to delays due to inconsiderate parking on Therapia and Marmora Roads SE22" (or words to that effect, sorry can't quote word for word, but that's the jiste of it), "resulting in 63's either terminating at Peckham Rye" or appear to having to go to Brockley Rise to turn around.

The NIMBY's seem to be 1-0 up at the moment following some "strategic parking". Will be interesting to see TfL's response. Any views on this from the councillors?

[Peckhampoet]

The message about inconsiderate parking was still being displayed at the bus stop at 10pm at Peckham Rye tonight. This sounds like a really badly managed scenario by TFL and the council. I live in Ivydale Road and my flat vibrates every time a P12 goes by so goodness only knows what a 63 feels like. Plus we regularly have stand offs as the buses try to negotiate their way around parked cars. delivery vehicles, recycling and refuse treks, etc. Frankly I think P12 bus drivers deserve every penny they earn.

I hope the 63 situation improves soon for you all.

[Katrusja]

The buses appear to be using the Brockley Rise terminus this morning to turn around.

[unlurked]

If it's true about people purposely parking to stop the buses using that particular route then I wonder how they would feel if there was to be a fatal accident on the forced route?

[SkyofFire]

OD Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> @skyoffire - as one of the residents that seem to

> be getting communications from the councillors,

> please can you (or anyone else who finds out) post

> the meeting details please.

>

> Much appreciated.

> OD

Yes, of course.

[SkyofFire]

unlurked Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If it's true about people purposely parking to

> stop the buses using that particular route then I

> wonder how they would feel if there was to be a

> fatal accident on the forced route?

The car that was crashed into definitely wasn't parked strategically - none of us have done that. A guy did double park the other night (a non-resident) but he wasn't aware that buses were using the road as a diversion.

[Zedd]

No car was parked "strategically".

If you look at the picture that has already been posted you can see that the bus has hit the rear corner of the silver Fiat 500. What you can't see in the picture is that behind the car the pavement "sticks out" (sorry I can't think of a different way of describing it). I imagine that this "design" of pavement is to stop people parking right on the junction corner so that vehicles making the turn can always see oncoming traffic. It acts in the same way as the double yellow lines on the corners of Scutari/ Marmora. In this case it has resulted in an unsuitable vehicle not having the space to make the turn around the corner. The pavement on the other side of the road is similar and the cars parked on both sides of the road were parked close to the curb. There are no road markings to direct drivers not to park their cars here and both cars were parked responsibly.

Other buses had already successfully negotiated the corner yesterday before the incident occurred suggesting that driver error was probably the main cause of the collision. Having said that, the turn in such a large vehicle is a very tight one and it is startling how close the buses have to get to the cars parked on the "passenger" side of the bus when approaching the end of Therapia in order to make it around the corner. Therefore perhaps it is TFL's error as much as the individual driver's. I do actually feel *some* sympathy for the bus drivers - I'm sure they wouldn't have chosen this route.

On a side note, I find comments such as this:

unlurked wrote:

> If it's true about people purposely parking to

> stop the buses using that particular route then I

> wonder how they would feel if there was to be a

> fatal accident on the forced route?

inflammatory, unnecessary and slightly twisted.

I look forward to receiving details of the planned meeting and I fully intend to attend.

[nunheadbelle]

I've been watching this thread with interest and I can see there is no simple answer. Maybe it would be an idea (if at all possible) to use the hopper-type buses like the ones used by the P12/P4, as they are smaller and would likely cause less vibration. This would probably mean the 63 terminating at the beginning of Forest Hill Road/Peckham Rye (as someone mentioned earlier) and transferring onto the smaller bus for the final part of the journey. Although a better place to terminate would be where the buses used to turn around just as they came out of Rye Lane by the little green patch. I think this is called The Heaton Arms (after the pub which is no longer there).

From my experience, this final part of the journey for the 63 from the City is usually less busy passenger-wise than the rest of the route, that's why I came up with the idea.

Unsure about the logistics of this, but it's just a thought.

[daveybigpotatoes]

Like thousands of others I use the 63 twice a day and see no reason why we should be inconvenienced with a reduced service/ having to get on some ridiculous and no doubt insufficiently large hopper service between Peckham Rye and FHR due to a few inconsiderate NIMBYs. Clearly the works need doing and will result in an overall long term improvement

Less than six weeks of increased traffic on a street is hardly a big deal - lots of people live on narrow roads with busses going past every day.

Most simple answer - continue to ignore the NIMBYs.

[unlurked]

daveybigpotatoes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Like thousands of others I use the 63 twice a day

> and see no reason why we should be inconvenienced

> with a reduced service/ having to get on some

> ridiculous and no doubt insufficiently large

> hopper service between Peckham Rye and FHR due to

> a few inconsiderate NIMBYs. Clearly the works need

> doing and will result in an overall long term

> improvement

> Less than six weeks of increased traffic on a

> street is hardly a big deal - lots of people live

> on narrow roads with busses going past every day.

> Most simple answer - continue to ignore the

> NIMBYs.

Agree.

[Gadder]

unlurked Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> daveybigpotatoes Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Like thousands of others I use the 63 twice a

> day

> > and see no reason why we should be

> inconvenienced

> > with a reduced service/ having to get on some

> > ridiculous and no doubt insufficiently large

> > hopper service between Peckham Rye and FHR due

> to

> > a few inconsiderate NIMBYs. Clearly the works

> need

> > doing and will result in an overall long term

> > improvement

> > Less than six weeks of increased traffic on a

> > street is hardly a big deal - lots of people

> live

> > on narrow roads with busses going past every

> day.

> > Most simple answer - continue to ignore the

> > NIMBYs.

>

> Agree.

I also agree.

[OD]

OR... continue to have the 63 bus turn round at Brockley Rise. I also travel on the 63/363 route (minimum twice a day)and it seems that since this arrangement was put in place on Saturday this has been working just fine!

I think that Renata also menitioned a side affect of trialing the so called '63 route extension'...different issue I agree, but a side effect nonetheless.

[Renata Hamvas]

The ward Councillors have made some suggested time to meet up with TFL and Harriet on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday this week. Depending on the consensus time and day, it may be that only one Councillor can make it (eg I am chairing a meeting on Wednesday evening so couldn't make the meeting if it's then), but we have suggested times where at least one of us will be there.

Hi Nunhead Belle, TFL won't spilt routes into large bus/little bus as it is uneconomical for them (this has come up in conversation previously with residents and TFL over the 343 route). I have received some emails outside of the forum by residents who use the 63 and are concerned that TFL may terminate buses at Peckham Rye. Their concerns have been capacity on the 363 and worries that TFL would then make this a permanent route extension.

Buses were supposed to be driving at 15MPH on the diversion route and night buses should have been on here as the N63 goes to Crystal Palace. I am appalled to see that a bus crashed into a car while on the diversion section.

While I was away, Councillor Mills had beat me to it to suggest extending to Brockley Rise. TFL flatly refused at the time.

I will post on here once we have conformation of the meeting time/day.

Renata

[jonbateson]

My concerns are not so much with the bus route coming past our house, more about the volume (often 3 buses all at once) and the speed that they travel. We are lucky in that we have a drive to park our car on but I am very concerned about the buses turning into the road, they come round very fast and wheels have come very close/onto the pavement whilst I have been standing nearby with my small children. Also pedestrians are not good at looking before they cross the road at the therapia/fhr junction and there could well be a nasty accident just there (that's more an issue of the pedestrians, but it becomes far more risky when buses are turning in at speed).

To the people suggesting we are being selfish by complaining about this, I wonder what you would do if you had similar concerns about buses on your road.

[dbboy]

yes, any time Honor Oak Road is closed we get all the traffic cutting through our road instead at speed.

[ruffers]

jonbateson Wrote:

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> To the people suggesting we are being selfish by

> complaining about this, I wonder what you would do

> if you had similar concerns about buses on your

> road.

I live on Melford Road which has all those concerns and yes, you are being selfish about this.

[jonbateson]

Sorry ruffers but I take offence to that, I was standing on the corner of therapia road and fhr with my two children 3 and under and a bus pulled very quickly around the corner, mounting the kerb. Do I not have a right to be annoyed about that? I already said in my post that I'm not worried about the buses coming this way but when they are driven like that it is not right (as it would not be right anywhere else). I think we will have to agree to disagree if you don't see the point here, I hope that you don't find yourself in a similar situation.

[OD]

@jonbateson - I have experienced the same and have also wondered how the cars parked LEGALLY close to Therapia/FHR junction have thus far escaped damage; as the corner is very tight for the buses. You have the right to raise your concerns just like anyoone else.

@Ruffers (and others of the same opinion) if residents of Therapia & Marmora roads were suggesting that the diversion be routed via Colyton and Mundunia roads instead, then I could see this as a case of these concerns being selfish/outright nimby-ism.

However, most of the suggestions I've seen, and indeed the one that is currently in place (and as Renata confirmed 'TFL flatly refused at the time') are along routes which buses 'usually' travel via main roads.... and SEEM to be holding as a solution; unless anyone has an update that it isnt?

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi OD,

I've asked council officers to update me if the 63 will going to Brockley Rise for the duration of the works.

Renata