Diverted 63 bus route - Marmora & Therapia Roads

[TonyQuinn]

Clearly there are issues about the 63 bus going down backstreets. But those worries should not preclude the urgent need to make Forest Hill Road safer. The works planned will help but in my view don't go far enough. 3, let's say 4, months of disruption is a small price to pay in terms of the bigger picture.

[SkyofFire]

I emailed several days ago and received a letter from Harman's office which said:

- they're raising concerns with Southwark council;

- they're asking ward councillers to meet with local residents to discuss;

- they're asking TFL for a report on the assessment they've made about alternative routes.

No word from Barrie Hargrove yet.

[andypandy]

We have been discussing this issue via our Marmora road Facebook page just over the last couple of days. "Love Marmora Road" if you want to join the group take a look and request to join ( it's pretty low-key)

Harriet H has has replied And appears to be taking it seriously. The council have also replied. It would appear that these decisions haven't been taken lightly also they have commented that they have been working with the contractors to programme the works so that the bus turning area is finished earlier so that the impact of the diversion is reduced to 6weeks rather than 3 months.

Personally I feel that trying to manage the situation is more practical than complaining Therapia is the worst hit here as the road isn't as wide as Scutari or Marmora.

Lets hope that the changes to FHR improve safety long term

Here's the reply from the council:

Thank you for your recent communication with Cllr Barrie Hargrove ? Cabinet Member for Transport, Environment and Recycling, particularly in connection with the proposed bus diversion route into your road, planned to commence next week. Please be assured that we are aware of your concern and have been trying to coordinate with TfL Buses and our contractor to seek ways to minimise any disruption to you and to other users and we will continue to do this over the next few weeks whilst the works is being delivered.

As you know the Council consulted residents in March 2012 on proposals to improve Forest Hill Road. The work at Colyton Road / Forest Hill was undertaken early in the year; however, we now need to carryout stage 2 of the works on Forest Hill between Marmora Road and Canonbie Road. A letter was circulated to all residents of the area on 1 July 2013 notifying everyone with the planned works; please see attached a copy of that notification for your information.

The proposed areas of works on Forest Hill are aimed at improving pedestrian access and safety and included:-

- The widening of the footway east of Forest Hill Road, between Marmora Road and Brenchley Gardens

- Reconstruction of the failed bus bay

- Small tree planting and removal of unnecessary signage and pedestrian barriers

The reconstruction of the bus stop requires the buses to use an alternative location to do U-Turn. London buses have investigated a number of options in the area and have decided that the most suitable one is the use of Therapia Road, Scutari Road and Marmora Road. I understand that the same route was used in 2011 when similar works was being done on Forest Hill. The Council is satisfied that TfL have not chosen this decision lightly, they undertook detailed investigation into all options and undertook trials on this route recently. TfL buses is preparing a separate note to circulate to residents explaining why this is their prefer option and has the least impact on bus users and local residents.

Please note that although our early notification indicated that we will require 3 months for the bus diversion route, however our contractor have now agreed to put additional resources on this project and aim at reducing the construction period for the bus lay-by to 6 weeks. This may mean that we can have an early termination of the bus diversion, approximately by half the planned period, this I am sure you will agree will substantially reduce any impact on your area, I trust this is acceptable to you.

Please be assured that TfL Buses are aware of your concern, they are copied on this email. If you need to pursue the matter directly with them or require further details regarding the bus diversion then you may contact their customer services directly on: [email protected]

Thank you for bringing the matter to our attention.

[Marmora]

All we have been asking is to manage the situation but the council with the letter above as well as all the emails received is refusing to acknowledge previous problems caused by buses to houses in Marmora Road. They have chosen not to reply to many of our questions. Residents have been pro active in suggesting quite a few alternatives for the buses but they were rejected without consideration.

They tell us their contractor have now agreed to put additional resources on this project and aim at reducing the time it will take. Yet they are already 3 weeks late starting, they only advised us about the delay 10 days after the work was due to start and only because we sent emails after emails.

Yes Harriet Harman seems to be taking the matter seriously, she asked our ward councillors to arrange a meeting with local residents to address the issue we have raised with her. Yes we do want this meeting.

Until it happens, please carry on sending emails to Harriet Harman

[unlurked]

Stuff and nonsense. Pure nimbyism. Am sure half of the nimbys also want road safety improvements! 3 months max, don't be so selfish.

[Renata Hamvas]

Dear all,

sorry, I've been away,

I contacted Barrie too and have heard back from council officers about this. The temporary rerouting of the 63 is totally within TFLs remit rather than the council's. The council has been informed that TFL did investigate the different options.

I am happy to meet up with residents to talk to them about the issues. As the works are due to start tomorrow, I won't be able to meet up with residents before they start.

Renata

[Zedd]

I have been waiting for the first accusations of "nimbyism" to fly so I would just like to clarify. No one is suggesting that the road safety works should not take place. These will benefit the whole community. What a number of people have said, and what I also believe, is that the proposals to send the buses along Therapia/Scutari/ Marmora are not the best option for a number of valid reasons. Alternatives have been suggested so this is also not pointless ranting or moaning.

I'm pleased to hear that the contractors have reduced the expected length of time that the alternative route will be used.

I would also be keen to attend a meeting to discuss the matter with Renata Hamvas despite the works already starting.

This is not nimbyism. It is a community of people getting together to try to improve a poxy situation. This is why I love living in ED :-)

[SkyofFire]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dear all,

> sorry, I've been away,

> I contacted Barrie too and have heard back from

> council officers about this. The temporary

> rerouting of the 63 is totally within TFLs remit

> rather than the council's. The council has been

> informed that TFL did investigate the different

> options.

>

> I am happy to meet up with residents to talk to

> them about the issues. As the works are due to

> start tomorrow, I won't be able to meet up with

> residents before they start.

> Renata

Wow, that's really useful. Cheers for that.

[SkyofFire]

Zedd Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have been waiting for the first accusations of

> "nimbyism" to fly so I would just like to clarify.

> No one is suggesting that the road safety works

> should not take place. These will benefit the

> whole community. What a number of people have

> said, and what I also believe, is that the

> proposals to send the buses along

> Therapia/Scutari/ Marmora are not the best option

> for a number of valid reasons. Alternatives have

> been suggested so this is also not pointless

> ranting or moaning.

>

> I'm pleased to hear that the contractors have

> reduced the expected length of time that the

> alternative route will be used.

>

> I would also be keen to attend a meeting to

> discuss the matter with Renata Hamvas despite the

> works already starting.

>

> This is not nimbyism. It is a community of people

> getting together to try to improve a poxy

> situation. This is why I love living in ED :-)

Exactly - it's a community trying to find an alternative because we a) don't want our cars scratched to pieces, and b) would rather the fronts of our houses and flats weren't damaged.

Obviously we'd like the main road and safety to be improved. We'd also like to be able to objet to buses coming down a narrow, unstable road and for our concerns to be taken seriously.

[unlurked]

Zedd Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have been waiting for the first accusations of

> "nimbyism" to fly so I would just like to clarify.

> No one is suggesting that the road safety works

> should not take place. These will benefit the

> whole community. What a number of people have

> said, and what I also believe, is that the

> proposals to send the buses along

> Therapia/Scutari/ Marmora are not the best option

> for a number of valid reasons. Alternatives have

> been suggested so this is also not pointless

> ranting or moaning.

>

> I'm pleased to hear that the contractors have

> reduced the expected length of time that the

> alternative route will be used.

>

> I would also be keen to attend a meeting to

> discuss the matter with Renata Hamvas despite the

> works already starting.

>

> This is not nimbyism. It is a community of people

> getting together to try to improve a poxy

> situation. This is why I love living in ED :-)

You and your "community" will directly benefit from the road safety benefits, as will the wider "community" but you will likely benefit more as you live close by and will use roads frequently. Wanting the improvments but wanting the buses be diverted to other streets and other communities is nimbyism. Moot point anyway as it is going to happen, and all the meeting will say is that there will be minimum disruption, probably no damage caused, and this is who to contact in case of damage etc. I hope there is no damage but a scratched car is better than a car crash/knocked down child.

[dbboy]

63 terminating at Peckham Rye this morning with at least 4 x 63 buses parked up there. You'll need to change to the 363 to get to Forest Hill Road, interestingly there are signs for the 63 to turn into Therapia. 363 driver said no 63's were coming up FHR. Certainly seemed as though the 363 had increased in frequency. Will be interesting to see what happens on Monday morning.

[Marmora Man]

Dbboy,

Stopping the 63 at Peckham was my wife's suggestion - see 22 Aug at 13.07.

[Drxyster]

SATURDAY AUGUST 24th.I have seen at least eight 63 buses travelling along "Therapia" Road this afternoon !!!!!!!!!

[Bic Basher]

dbboy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Will be interesting to see

> what happens on Monday morning.

It's a bank holiday on Monday, so should be the Sunday timetable.

[dbboy]

my mistake, I meant Tuesday.

[dbboy]

I was commenting purely on what I had observed today when I was going and returning from the weekly shop. It may have been your wifes suggestion, just means no 63's any further than Peckhama Rye and a need to change buses there. IThere is the choice of course of taking the P12.

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dbboy,

>

> Stopping the 63 at Peckham was my wife's

> suggestion - see 22 Aug at 13.07.

[Renata Hamvas]

I have a suggestion, a bit of a merged version of suggestions above and the correspondence I've received. What do residents think of alternating 63s to Peckham Rye and Brockley Rise (where the P12s terminate) for the 3 month period. I don't think terminating all the 63s at Peckham Rye would work as there would be capacity issues on the 363 and P12 (both get busy at peak times) and this would be a way to test the demand for a 63 extension and shouldn't cost more than current service if 50% of the 63s are extended and 50% and truncated. (I have no idea if TFL would agree to this, it's just an idea). Looking in my diary the earliest I could meet with residents is lunchtime on Thursday, would this work for any of you?

Renata

[dbboy]

Why bring Brockley Rise into the discussion? It's got nothing to do with the 63 using Therapia and Marmora roads while the road works (that not all of us wanted) are implemented.

Perhaps concentrating on key issues rather than causing mischive would be more productive.

Presumably the increased frequency of the 363 will continue whilst the 63 continues to terminate at Peckham Rye.

[Katrusja]

Renata,

You might need to consider (because TfL certainly will) that the works in Ladywell village are not due for completion until 27th September. Whilst they are ongoing the P4 and 122 are using the Brockley Rise terminus as part of their diverted routes and there are also double-decker shuttle buses (522) running between Ladywell and Brockley Rise, so the terminus is already absorbing more than its usual capacity.

K.

[Renata Hamvas]

I have had some emails about this as well as the posts on here. We are trying to sort out a date/time for Harriet, us, the ward councillors, and Cabinet Member, Barrie Hargrove to meet up with residents to discuss this.

Renata

[unlurked]

IMO this is too little and too late. May as well leave it.

[Marmora]

Dear Ms Hamvas,

The buses have been rattling our houses since Saturday 24th August. They have been a real danger to pedestrians with many buses not respecting the 15mph speed limit yet the council is doing NOTHING. Since last Friday they are now telling us it is not their responsibility but it is TFL's!

Even the bus drivers we have spoken to are not happy with the narrow streets and turns they have to make.

Harriet Harman wrote to us on 20th August promising consultation and a meeting, we are still waiting!

Is it was you call consultation?

PLEASE CAN EVERYBODY WHO IS CONCERNED CALL OUR MP HARRIET HARMAN ON 020 72194218 NOW AND LEAVE A MESSAGE

[Siduhe]

Someone was at the 63 bus stop early this morning, making notes and talking to passengers and drivers. It looked to me more like they were a resident rather than anyone from TFL or the Council. They suggested that the solution under discussion is the one mentioned a while back of stopping the 63 in Peckham Rye and asking people to use the 363 to get up to the FHT instead.

If this is part of the solution being discussed, Renata - can I ask if TFL are going to agree to let people affected use the 363 without having to pay another fare and how that's going to work in practice? I for one would be pretty hacked off at having to pay twice to get home on the basis this is a "better" solution than the buses turning down Marmora/Therapia.

[OD]

Even though I was only a little concered when I first started this thread; mostly for other peoples children tbh.... OMG the buses are ridiculous... last night as 3 buses thundered down the road you could really feel the vibrations through the house and as Marmora has said, there seems to be little adherence to the reduced speed limit; saw a couple more buses this morning racing down the road too.

Renata - Can you please please please expedite matters?

Will be calling Harriet now!! I'd encourage others to do so too!

[andypandy]

Suggestion: There is nothing like a tangible demonstration of a problem. Could I suggest that someone films a wine glass of water to demonstrate the vibration issue as a bus passes. This could be posted with a link so that you can really see the issue that is being described. I like on Marmora but at the wrong (or right) end depending on your point of view.

I've never seen an empty bus doing less than about 50mph so I'm not at all surprised that at night the drivers floor-it along the drag strip that is Marmora Road. Could be have a temporary hump halfway along??