Is Rachel Reeves becoming the new Liz Truss?

[Spartacus]

Take your labour blinkers off sir, Businesses are cutting hiring, prices will go up and new businesses won't start all as a result in the NI hike for employers 

Talking down the country pre budget also knocked consumer confidence 

Tomorrow labour are goung to announce getting young people into education or employment, yet with the above where will those jobs come from ? 

The three people who sent the pertition to me are all small business owners who are taking the brunt of the changes introduced in the budget, one is even talking about closing as it impacts margins so heavily. 

This is why people are unhappy. Labour hog tied themselves by promising no tax rises on working people and now the economy is suffering. 

Take the red pill sir, not the blue one. 

 

 

[Sephiroth]

and were people like you worried about "cutting hiring, prices going up and new business not starting" under the last govt or as a result of brexit

I don't have labour blinkers - I didn't even vote labour at the election. 

But do take a look at the data for that petition - and see how many actually come from UK

Edited November 25 by Sephiroth

[Rockets]

11 hours ago, malumbu said:

Labour have moved to the right aping Tory words.  Thought you'd like this 

Malumbu, you were saying to posters on here "well where else will the money come from" and this highlights one of the major challenges for Labour.

Take the very issue being discussed on health related benefit claims. When you look at the data on what has been happening it really shows what a problem it has become but, of course, a Labour government can't possibly attack that area in the same way they go after others - it's easy for Labour to attack the perceptual cruise-going pensioners, toffs at private school and (with less effectiveness) rich land owning farmers.

Liz Kendall was on Laura K on Sunday and you could tell talking about the issue (which the government clearly have to deal with) was really difficult because what they are going to have to do is very un-Labour because the situation is out of control and they have to get on top of it.

[jazzer]

Sephiroth, what you don't like is people disagreeing with your blinkered view of what this Govt are doing, steering the country into economic turmoil. And as of this morning 1.9m people have so far signed the petition.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YiinHLdspA 

No it's not far right, its the people speaking out and saying Starmer, Reeves and Rayner got it wrong. We don't want an economic crash which is where they are taking us, the last thing the people want is inflation rising along with interest rates and mortgages, and food, and energy costs, and , and, and, and, the list is endless. What people do want is this bunch of fools removed from office before they do any more damage to the country. And when Kemi takes Office, all this foolishness imposed during Starmagedon will be reversed. 

The people have had enough, they realise the damage being done to the country.

They realise that employers are cutting back on jobs and already making people redundant

They recognise the cost of living is increasing, not decreasing.

They recognise that Energy prices are increasing, not decreasing as Starmer promised.

They recognise that the hike in employer NI contributions hurts everyone in this country.

They recognise that the Winter fuel allowance has been rescinded, leaving pensioners to freeze in their homes.

They recognise that life is going to get more, not less expensive because of Reeves failed budget, they recognise that the tax on farmers land will result in farmers not supplying food and causing food shortages, WHY can't you see this.  

Now as for "b) more than a little bit unstable and posting random links from far right YouTube sites" - No I'm not unstable, you just don't like the truth being pointed out to you. 

"there have always been people like this in the country and now they have a way to express it - in no way should it deflect a government or represent majority of people". The purpose of the lounge is to enable people to express what they she happening, at the moment by an inept Govt, about to crash the country into a huge economic iceberg, taking us back probably to the economics of the 1920's. 

You even disagree with what is said in the House of Commons, when Liebour get harpooned and Reeves runs out of the chamber because she can't accept scrutiny and doesn't want to answer the questions, as she Fked up. 

Edited November 25 by jazzer

[Sephiroth]

"No I'm not unstable, you just don't like"

 

Can I stop you there? Leaving aside the first bit of that statement (and I'd be interested in what other readers genuinely think about that) there is little point jabbing a finger and saying "you just don't like" when it is YOU that "just doesn't like" a democratically elected govt with a massive majority and are taking steps to over throw it with pathetic excuses

As I've pointed out the last govt did many many things not in their manifesto, changed leader 3 times without presenting to electorate - so don't give me any nonsense about "I just don't like"

 

 

[jazzer]

No, you won't stop me there. 

Sephiroth, what you don't like is people disagreeing with your blinkered view of what this Govt are doing, steering the country into economic turmoil. And as of this morning 1.9m people have so far signed the petition.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YiinHLdspA 

No it's not far right, its the people speaking out and saying Starmer, Reeves and Rayner got it wrong. We don't want an economic crash which is where they are taking us, the last thing the people want is inflation rising along with interest rates and mortgages, and food, and energy costs, and , and, and, and, the list is endless. What people do want is this bunch of fools removed from office before they do any more damage to the country. And when Kemi takes Office, all this foolishness imposed during Starmagedon will be reversed. 

The people have had enough, they realise the damage being done to the country.

They realise that employers are cutting back on jobs and already making people redundant

They recognise the cost of living is increasing, not decreasing.

They recognise that Energy prices are increasing, not decreasing as Starmer promised.

They recognise that the hike in employer NI contributions hurts everyone in this country.

They recognise that the Winter fuel allowance has been rescinded, leaving pensioners to freeze in their homes.

They recognise that life is going to get more, not less expensive because of Reeves failed budget, they recognise that the tax on farmers land will result in farmers not supplying food and causing food shortages, WHY can't you see this.  

Now as for "b) more than a little bit unstable and posting random links from far right YouTube sites" - No I'm not unstable, you just don't like the truth being pointed out to you. 

"there have always been people like this in the country and now they have a way to express it - in no way should it deflect a government or represent majority of people". The purpose of the lounge is to enable people to express what they she happening, at the moment by an inept Govt, about to crash the country into a huge economic iceberg, taking us back probably to the economics of the 1920's. 

You even disagree with what is said in the House of Commons, when Liebour get harpooned and Reeves runs out of the chamber because she can't accept scrutiny and doesn't want to answer the questions, as she Fked up. 

[alice]

You are very closed in with a shutdown view of what is actually happening in the world. There is absolutely no discussion to be had. 
The whole point of a discussion is the idea that people may change their minds, adapt their views with incoming facts that’s not going to  happen here. 

[malumbu]

This is what is happening on other threads, in particular anything to do with active travel.  Not sure why this forum has become so polarised.

[ianr]

What is the URL of this petition? I want to read it.

Edited November 25 by ianr

[jazzer]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143

[ianr]

Thank you.  As it's short I may as well repeat the wording here.

"Call a General Election

"I would like there to be another General Election.

"I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election."

Edited November 25 by ianr

[jazzer]

And add to that list, the removal of Freedom of Speech by Starmer's Government, the removal of democracy and the implementation of a one Party State on the people. 

[ianr]

45 minutes ago, jazzer said:

Reeves runs out of the chamber because she can't accept scrutiny and doesn't want to answer the questions

I'd like to examine this too please.  Where can I do so?

[Sephiroth]

55 minutes ago, jazzer said:

No, you won't stop me there. 

Sephiroth, what you don't like is people disagreeing with your blinkered view of what this Govt are doing, steering the country into economic turmoil. And as of this morning 1.9m people have so far signed the petition.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YiinHLdspA 

No it's not far right, its the people speaking out and saying Starmer, Reeves and Rayner got it wrong. We don't want an economic crash which is where they are taking us, the last thing the people want is inflation rising along with interest rates and mortgages, and food, and energy costs, and , and, and, and, the list is endless. What people do want is this bunch of fools removed from office before they do any more damage to the country. And when Kemi takes Office, all this foolishness imposed during Starmagedon will be reversed. 

The people have had enough, they realise the damage being done to the country.

They realise that employers are cutting back on jobs and already making people redundant

They recognise the cost of living is increasing, not decreasing.

They recognise that Energy prices are increasing, not decreasing as Starmer promised.

They recognise that the hike in employer NI contributions hurts everyone in this country.

They recognise that the Winter fuel allowance has been rescinded, leaving pensioners to freeze in their homes.

They recognise that life is going to get more, not less expensive because of Reeves failed budget, they recognise that the tax on farmers land will result in farmers not supplying food and causing food shortages, WHY can't you see this.  

Now as for "b) more than a little bit unstable and posting random links from far right YouTube sites" - No I'm not unstable, you just don't like the truth being pointed out to you. 

"there have always been people like this in the country and now they have a way to express it - in no way should it deflect a government or represent majority of people". The purpose of the lounge is to enable people to express what they she happening, at the moment by an inept Govt, about to crash the country into a huge economic iceberg, taking us back probably to the economics of the 1920's. 

You even disagree with what is said in the House of Commons, when Liebour get harpooned and Reeves runs out of the chamber because she can't accept scrutiny and doesn't want to answer the questions, as she Fked up. 

pretty much everything in this post is  why after 14 years the last govt were chucked out - don't you get that?

 

if you don't want an economic crash you shouldn't have voted for Brexit (and Labour shouldn't be sticking so much to their red lines either)

 

I'm basically saying everything you say is hypocritical

 

and again - have a look at the countries where most of those petition signers are coming from- it's not the UK 

 

 

Edited November 25 by Sephiroth

[jazzer]

The Clauses of Magna Carta

There are 63 clauses in Magna Carta. For the main part, the clauses do not deal with legal principles but instead relate to the regulation of feudal customs and the operation of the justice system. There are clauses on the granting of taxes, towns and trade, the extent and regulation of the royal forest, debt, the Church and the restoration of peace.

Only four of the 63 clauses in Magna Carta are still valid today - 1 (part), 13, 39 and 40. Of enduring importance to people appealing to the charter over the last 800 years are the famous clauses 39 and 40:

“No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.

“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”

These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not.

Edited November 25 by jazzer

[Sephiroth]

yep totally stable

 

remember when Johnson messed things up and was about to be replaced - were you calling for an election then?

 

what is the purpose of posting all that Magna Carta bobbins - how is it in any way pertinent in 2024 to a newly elected government - you are just spouting nonsense you read and see on YouTube - you have nothing resembling a case or a point

56 minutes ago, alice said:

You are very closed in with a shutdown view of what is actually happening in the world. There is absolutely no discussion to be had. 
The whole point of a discussion is the idea that people may change their minds, adapt their views with incoming facts that’s not going to  happen here. 

the electorate for example may well change their minds. - and they can express that at the next general election

(unlike the debacle that was the Brexit referendum for example)

[malumbu]

Remember what happened to Wat Tyler

[Spartacus]

12 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

 

remember when Johnson messed things up and was about to be replaced - were you calling for an election then?

From memory, I believe there were people talking for one, and after Liz and Rishi took the reigns as well.... 

[jazzer]

“No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.

“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”

These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not

[malumbu]

Wat Tyler of course takes me back to the two poll tax rebellions.  Not really sure why Thatch thought that poll tax was a good idea.  Maybe she thought that those who had not bettered themselves and were living with a number of other people in modest accommodation needed a lesson.  But she had done her time and the knives had already been sharpened in her own party.

Too soon to think this is happening in Labour.  I posted elsewhere a review of the last government's manifesto by a political analyst.  Sobering how much they hadn't achieved. As with all manifestos.

That working class hero turned bad Livingstone campaigned on slashing bus fares from the universe pound, at the time And reintroducing conductors. Neither happened, following a reality check.  Instead by accident or design he revolutionised public transport with the Oyster card. Lest we forget.

[Sephiroth]

26 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

From memory, I believe there were people talking for one, and after Liz and Rishi took the reigns as well.... 

yep - there were people - but not jazzer

And as I've noted before to lose one PM mid government is unfortunate - but to lose 2 - and with such catastrophic consequences should have led to a GE around time of Sunak appt - there is a constitutional argument to be made at that point - at what point is it the same broom if you change the handle 3 times and the head 4 times

And I've also said if Labour were to overthrow Starmer (and in the sane real world there is no chance of that happening) and replace with someone like Corbyn then I would argue there is a case for an election there too

[Earl Aelfheah]

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143

Yeh, this isn't how it works.

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

And add to that list, the removal of Freedom of Speech by Starmer's Government, the removal of democracy and the implementation of a one Party State on the people. 

You OK?

[Sephiroth]

24 minutes ago, jazzer said:

“No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.

“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”

These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not

this still doesn't pertain to current situation in any way - and burying your head in YouTube videos and blogs which sound "arfentic" by quoting ancient script doesn't mean what you think it means

Edited November 25 by Sephiroth

[Rockets]

4 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

But do take a look at the data for that petition - and see how many actually come from UK

Sephiroth, where is the data for non-UK people? Thanks

[jazzer]

Sephiroth, obviously you must be having difficulty translating the meaning of the words below, These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not

Never mind, keep on ignoring the facts 

The only one here burying their head in the sand seems to be you, with your total unwillingness to accept what a disaster Liebour have turned out to be after 120 days in Office, making themselves a one term Govt. Bet you think the sun shines out of his backside. Because whenever an election happens they will NEVER EVER be trusted ever again or ever get back into Govt for many, many years after the dictatorship we have been placed under. 

Reeves was giving a speech at the CBI earlier today, bet that went well for her, NOT. 

Edited November 25 by jazzer