Is Rachel Reeves becoming the new Liz Truss?

[Sephiroth]

this is mental - you are literally describing a completely different way of dealing with a situation - and claiming "it;s all the same". Because labour say "were not like them" and prove it by doing something that's the complete opposite of their predecessors

If wrongdoing comes to light, a party can either try and brush it off and ignore it - or deal with it immediately

which do you want? what would make Labour look good in your eyes in this situation?

[malumbu]

All of this send them to the Tower, off with their heads reminds me of Cecil Parkinson who got caught with his pants down, resigned his position, then later returned as a minister to standing applause from his Tory MP colleagues.   Ah, the good old days   

[Sephiroth]

I see Heidi Alexander’s appointment means the entire cabinet is state-educated for first time in history

thats not nothing - especially if you are a “they are all metropolitan elites - all of em!!!” Type 

[Rockets]

15 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

If wrongdoing comes to light, a party can either try and brush it off and ignore it - or deal with it immediately

Or promote them to be a member of the Cabinet.....;-)

[David Peckham]

4 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I see Heidi Alexander’s appointment means the entire cabinet is state-educated for first time in history

thats not nothing - especially if you are a “they are all metropolitan elites - all of em!!!” Type 

It depends how you define 'Metropolitan Elite'.

The cabinet is heavily skewed to the Oxbridge-educated, to lawyers, and particularly to those who went straight from university into think tanks or parliamentary and union researcher posts.

It's a long way from being representative of the workforce in general. There's very little private sector experience, but that's probably a good thing given the misadventures of Reevesy and Haigho when they dipped their toes in it.

It is an improvement on the 'Public School & PPE at Oxford' Tory cabal, but still smacks of a political class well removed from the electorate. 

It's got four members who are related to prominent Labour figures, past and present.

It's still very much an 'Elite'.

19 out of 22 in the cabinet represent either a constuency in a Metropolitan county (England's six largest cities) or one in another large city. One is in the House of Lords. One is in Brighton & Hove. The other represents Swindon, which is about as close as you'll get to a proper city in Wiltshire - I'm disregarding Old Sarum. You're not even allowed to take your pig into a pub in Swindon, elsewhere in Wiltshire you probably won't get in without one. Believe me, I've tried.

The cabinet really couldn't be more 'Metropolitan'.

Even the stench of Rayner's chips & gravy isn't enough to cover the whiff of the seven-vegetable tagine suppers.

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by David Peckham
Punctuation.

[jazzer]

.

Edited November 29, 2024 by jazzer

[Sephiroth]

21 minutes ago, David Peckham said:

It depends how you define 'Metropolitan Elite'.

The cabinet is heavily skewed to the Oxbridge-educated, to lawyers, and particularly to those who went straight from university into think tanks or parliamentary and union researcher posts.

It's a long way from being representative of the workforce in general. There's very little private sector experience, but that's probably a good thing given the misadventures of Reevesy and Haigho when they dipped their toes in it.

It is an improvement on the 'Public School & PPE at Oxford' Tory cabal, but still smacks of a political class well removed from the electorate. 

It's got four members who are related to prominent Labour figures, past and present.

It's still very much an 'Elite'.

19 out of 22 in the cabinet represent either a constuency in a Metropolitan county (England's six largest cities) or one in another large city. One is in the House of Lords. One is in Brighton & Hove. The other represents Swindon, which is about as close as you'll get to a proper city in Wiltshire - I'm disregarding Old Sarum. You're not even allowed to take your pig into a pub in Swindon, elsewhere in Wiltshire you probably won't get in without one. Believe me, I've tried.

The cabinet really couldn't be more 'Metropolitan'.

Even the stench of Rayner's chips & gravy isn't enough to cover the whiff of the seven-vegetable tagine suppers.

 

I dunno man 

no political party is going to be formed of people on the street, tapped on the shoulder, and asked “do you want to run the country? You’ll have to be elected and give up a lot for not a huge amount of money - fancy it?”

political parties - grown up ones anyway - will be a self-selecting wonkish bunch.  I’m ok with that.  Doesn’t make them “elite”

I often think English people just love nothing more than to suffer.  And complain about suffering.  But like it really.  

[malumbu]

I really enjoyed the play at the National Theatre Nye (Bevan) about the politician and the establishment of the NHS.  He had to seriously compromise including some element of the private sector, GP practices, pharmacies being independent businesses, and consultants keeping on private work 

The days that a working class person from the valleys can be on the Cabinet are all but gone.  But even then he was an outlier

[David Peckham]

20 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I dunno man 

no political party is going to be formed of people on the street, tapped on the shoulder, and asked “do you want to run the country? You’ll have to be elected and give up a lot for not a huge amount of money - fancy it?”

political parties - grown up ones anyway - will be a self-selecting wonkish bunch.  I’m ok with that.  Doesn’t make them “elite”

I often think English people just love nothing more than to suffer.  And complain about suffering.  But like it really.  

The English have always been naturally self-deprecating. Having a pop at politicians of all hues is just an extension of that. It's like holding a mirror up to ourselves. We get what we voted for.

Shit.

Ever since Peter Cook et al lampooned MacMillan, through to Mike Yarwood, Yes Minister, Spitting Image and The Thick of It, they've felt far happier taking the piss out of politicians rather than praising them. It's funnier and, frankly, far easier.

I don't expect a cabinet to accurately reflect society at large, but people are becoming less engaged with politics. 2024 was the lowest turnout in 20 years, despite there being an awful lot for people to be motivated to vote about. Maybe that can be put down to the rise of a politico class/wonkocracy who planned their career path to be being a politician at the same age most of us still thought that being an astronaut, princess or dinosaur was a perfectly reasonable career choice. 

I just find them uninspiring and slightly 'Stepford Wives'. It's like being governed by a gaggle of management consultants with Master's degrees in 'Public Policy'.

This cabinet is pretty homogeneous in it's background, as well. Out of the 'Big Four', three went to Oxford. Three represent 'inner' London constituencies. Two are lawyers, two are 'economists'. Their total experience outside of the public sector and politics is less than 20 years. That's not a great breadth of knowledge.

There's also the Minister for Business who has never actually worked in a business and a Minister for Rural Affairs who represents beautiful, bucolic Croydon.

That does seem silly enough to take the piss out of.

[Rockets]

We really really need Spitting Image back, they would have had a field day with the previous lot and this lot...

I agree that laughing and ridiculing politicians is one of the ways we hold them accountable and our cultural heritage is laced with great examples, Private Eye, Spitting Image etc etc

 

Edited November 30, 2024 by Rockets

[malumbu]

54 minutes ago, David Peckham said:

The English have always been naturally self-deprecating. Having a pop at politicians of all hues is just an extension of that. It's like holding a mirror up to ourselves. We get what we voted for.

Shit.

Ever since Peter Cook et al lampooned MacMillan, through to Mike Yarwood, Yes Minister, Spitting Image and The Thick of It, they've felt far happier taking the piss out of politicians rather than praising them. It's funnier and, frankly, far easier.

I don't expect a cabinet to accurately reflect society at large, but people are becoming less engaged with politics. 2024 was the lowest turnout in 20 years, despite there being an awful lot for people to be motivated to vote about. Maybe that can be put down to the rise of a politico class/wonkocracy who planned their career path to be being a politician at the same age most of us still thought that being an astronaut, princess or dinosaur was a perfectly reasonable career choice. 

I just find them uninspiring and slightly 'Stepford Wives'. It's like being governed by a gaggle of management consultants with Master's degrees in 'Public Policy'.

This cabinet is pretty homogeneous in it's background, as well. Out of the 'Big Four', three went to Oxford. Three represent 'inner' London constituencies. Two are lawyers, two are 'economists'. Their total experience outside of the public sector and politics is less than 20 years. That's not a great breadth of knowledge.

There's also the Minister for Business who has never actually worked in a business and a Minister for Rural Affairs who represents beautiful, bucolic Croydon.

That does seem silly enough to take the piss out of.

If things are a bit crazy in the UK this is nothing compared to the States.  The radio 4 show Dead Ringers still does a good job of lampooning politicians, the sketch with our national treasures getting position under Trump was classic, for example Ian McKellen was given head of Middle Earth.

[Sephiroth]

3 weeks after the thread started and looking at the markets I think we can say that no - Rachel Reeves is NOT becoming the new Liz Truss

Regular, garden-variety political missteps or "controversial" policy shouldn't be mistaken for the calamity of the last government - specifically under Truss 

[diable rouge]

Indeed Seph.

This from the BBC's Economic Editor Faisal Islam for the more fiscally minded, or in layman's terms, much ado about nothing....

''5 year gilt rate now 10 basis points below morning of Budget…. Not far off going below 4% again… important for 5 year fixed mortgages… 10 year and 2 year also 10 bps down… All back within a few bps (ie under 0.1%) of where they were on election day was some properly crazed stuff on markets just after Budget… esp on currency. Sterling now up vs euro, down 2% vs dollar. All these moves really rather normal, and as I said the day after the Budget a 15 bp rise at peak a relatively modest reaction vs significant increase in borrowing, tax & spend/ change in fiscal rules''

[Rockets]

What does everyone think of the relaunch? Is it an admission things have not gone well?

[malumbu]

FTSE is steady near an all time high. The knocking Labour that is expected from the right wing rags seems to have become infectious.  If I Was PM I'd just tell them all to FO.

I'm far more interested in last night's Questiontime, and the arrogance of Farage (also could be applied to Johnson, Clarkson and others who do not answer questions, shoulder no blame and go into pantomime mode when put on the spot).

So Mr Farage, Brexit has hit our economy badly.  And he takes no blame, whilst he was happy to stir up anti-immigrant fervour following the Southport tragedy.

I suggest you lay off Labour and focus on those that deserve our disgust.

[Spartacus]

2 hours ago, malumbu said:

FTSE is steady near an all time high. The knocking Labour that is expected from the right wing rags seems to have become infectious.  If I Was PM I'd just tell them all to FO.

It's -40 points today obviously the market is reacting well 😅

[Rockets]

Uh-oh...now the teachers are upset.....

[Sephiroth]

The cheap whiskey blend? or.....

[jazzer]

And public sector get another 2.8% increase on top of the 5.5% increase in July, just make the country bust why don't you. Jackasses  Starmer and Reeves.

[malumbu]

Perhaps some of you are unaware of the damage that the coalition did to our economy through their unnecessary programme that f'cked public services and led to a massive drop in real term pay across the public sector.

Or maybe your teachers, doctors, nurses do not deserve a decent wage.  Quite shocking if you are into this American way of thinking. 

[Sephiroth]

what? banging a saucepan not enough for these ungrateful so called "doctors"???

[jazzer]

Not about banging saucepans or clapping them. They do great work, but an 8.3% in 5 months. What happened to reality.

And Starmer got a total battering at PMQ's today, was well worth watching seeing Kemi lay it on him and watching him squirm. 

[Sephiroth]

Please everyone. Do watch or listen to that PMQ. Because if you think starmer got a battering and Badenoch didn’t come across as patently ill-suited to the job… well, jazzer has a friend 

 

 

[Moovart]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/11/the-tories-are-living-in-an-echo-chamber-with-kemi-badenoch-as-its-mouthpiece?CMP=share_btn_url

Gotta love John Crace.  Hits the nail on the head.

[Sephiroth]

Loving the irony of a thread which is supposed to be "Rachel Reeves yeah? she's as bad as Liz Truss!" which is clearly not true - but has now morphed into some people praising Kemi Badenoch - someone who may ACTUALLY be much worse than Truss. She is barely in touch with reality

 

 

I mean: WTF is she on about here:

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/kemi-badenoch-lunch-breaks-are-for-wimps-and-sandwiches-are-not-real-food/