Is Rachel Reeves becoming the new Liz Truss?

[jazzer]

To answer the original question, YES, Reeves has become the new Liz Truss. Now don't get me wrong, Truss was as mad as a hatter, but Reeves, she steals the biscuit. In the next couple of years, and that's if she survives that long, you'll see just how much damage her, Rayner and Starmer have done to this country. Three million other people also think this Govt is pants and want rid. And yes, Kemi did batter Starmer, so much so he was clinching his butt cheeks cause ne knew he'd been found out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkPqybdOhMA

 

Edited December 12 by jazzer

[Rockets]

Now WASPI women are upset...this government is lurching from one disaster to another....I am starting to wonder if they are ever going to be able to recover...it seems it's one own-goal to another.

[Sephiroth]

you'd have to go some to call the WASPI situations where most of the women knew well in advance and where it would cost bajillions we don't have a dsisaster

you can call it unfortunate, slippery, political, clumsy

But a  disaster it ain't

[malumbu]

In deed, and why are you so excited by this/continually look for dirt on Starmer?

[Sephiroth]

46 minutes ago, malumbu said:

In deed, and why are you so excited by this/continually look for dirt on Starmer?

because they hang around very excitable online right-wing forums/YouTube videos where this stuff is poured into their brain by the second. And not being a very critical thinker, they lap it up

[Rockets]

Ha ha, speak for yourself Sephiroth - I can assure you I do not hang out in any right-wing cesspit (unless of course you're part of the bunch who think the BBC is is a right-wing forum!).

It is a political disaster - you just can't keep scoring these own goals without it doing long-term harm to your reputation and if Labour fail to get on top of this it is going to be an incredibly rough ride for them and I worry they will play into Reform's hands - and that is something no-one wants to contemplate. For the benefit of everyone they have to do better - and quickly.

[jazzer]

Inflation has risen for the second month in a row to 2.6%, this is just the beginning. 

and I almost forgot, some Christmas cheer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxtc-b2JURw

 

 

 

[Sephiroth]

I think it's possible to view several of the mistakes labour has made as "not good" without it equalling a disaster

I know there is a narrative out there that this will play into Reform hands - but  you would have to look at all of the major issues and think Reform would do a better job. No sane person could think that. 

And then there is the obvious problem with Farage - people don't like him. Oh I know in some heartlands he has a big enough core - but the country as a whole? Nah

I think labour are being clumsy in some areas, wrong in others, deeply dissapointing in some cases - and yet even before they were elected I knew most of this was likely - just because of the  size of the problems facing the country  (and I still reckon most people haven't quite grasped how bad things are after 14 years)  coupled with the fact that labour talent pool is  mid-table at best, compared with New Labour years. 

All still HUGELY more desirable than what we have had previously tho

 

 

[jazzer]

Does this list satisfactorily summarise the trips Reeves, Rayner and Starmer have so far succeeded in tripping themselves up with?

i) 5.5% pay increase for public sector 

ii) £300 Pensioner heating allowance withdrawn 

iii) Budget increasing employer NI contributions

iv) Two consecutive months of GDP reducing by 0.1% each month

v) Farmers Inheritance Tax to be increased 

vi) Inflation increasing

vii) WASPI women compensation scheme denied 

viii)  still to happen

viiii)  still to happen

x)  still to happen

[Sephiroth]

No it doesn’t - not all of them are even bad or down to a new government 

 

and none of them compare to the shitshow inherited, the brexit debts mounting or the pensions lost to truss

 

not even close 

For a start

 

”ii) £300 Pensioner heating allowance withdrawn” isn’t even accurate - many pensioners will still receive it 

2 hours ago, Rockets said:

Ha ha, speak for yourself Sephiroth - I can assure you I do not hang out in any right-wing cesspit (unless of course you're part of the bunch who think the BBC is is a right-wing forum!).

It is a political disaster - you just can't keep scoring these own goals without it doing long-term harm to your reputation and if Labour fail to get on top of this it is going to be an incredibly rough ride for them and I worry they will play into Reform's hands - and that is something no-one wants to contemplate. For the benefit of everyone they have to do better - and quickly.

Just the bbc is it rockets?  Totally believable - maybe you even believe it yourself 

 

chinny reckon 

[jazzer]

i) 5.5% pay increase for public sector, implemented by Starmers Govt

2.8% pay increase offered to public sector in addition to the 5.5% increase given July 2024

ii) £300 Pensioner heating allowance withdrawn,  implemented by Starmers Govt

iii) Budget increasing employer NI contributions,  implemented by Starmers Govt

increase of minimum wage, implemented by Starmers Govt

iv) Two consecutive months of GDP reducing by 0.1% each month, as a result of the budget

v) Farmers Inheritance Tax to be increased,  implemented by Starmers Govt

vi) Inflation increasing, reported as 2.6%,an increase for two consecutive months as a result of the budget

vii) WASPI women compensation scheme denied, implemented by Starmers Govt

viii) £50m given to Syria, while UK pensioners will freeze this winter and have to choose between heating and eating, implemented by Starmers Govt

 

All done and signed off by Starmer and a result of Reeves budget. And all factual as well, they can't be argued with either because they happened. 

Edited 19 hours ago by jazzer

[Rockets]

3 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Just the bbc is it rockets?  Totally believable - maybe you even believe it yourself 

Ha ha, I love it when anytime anyone disagrees with Labour their supporters accuse them of being rabid right-wing borderline fascists.....normally it's to mask the fact they know Labour are an absolute disaster right now and they're a bit embarrassed as this is not what anyone expected. 

I am a left leaning centrist and really struggling to find any redeeming features of this government. The dream they promised is fast becoming a living nightmare and I sense they're losing a lot of the people who won them the election. 

A bit like Brexit a lot of people are getting voters' remorse....

[Sephiroth]

It’s not that you disagree with Labour.  I often find myself disagreeing with them too 

 

it’s the catastrophising. And the phrases you use 

 

you might consider yourself a left leaning centrist.  And maybe you were.  Very little sign of it now 

serious question.  Election tomorrow.  Which party would get your vote ?

[Rockets]

But you have to admit the first months of this government have been a disaster. I cannot think of another party that has struggled so much in the first months of leadership. Clearly the rhetoric that they had been preparing for 14 years was just that as it doesn't feel like they spent 14 weeks preparing.

I really would struggle if the election was tomorrow and not sure anyone would get my vote.

Labour - nothing fills me with confidence that they have what it takes and most of the cabinet are nothing more than glorified local councillors and should be nowhere near a government. Will likely implode.

Tories - chasing the Reform vote and lurching further towards the far right will not win them the swing voters. 

Lib Dems - feels like a wasted vote although they are making some headway after the Coalition disaster.

Greens - again wasted vote and even more like local (fringe) councillors

Reform - scary populist racists who are a real threat to our country

 

[malumbu]

There's some good debate here, but sadly this forum can become quite polarised and the title of the thread doesn't work.  It's useful to look back on how we got in this mess.

Blair had the benefit of a massive feel good factor, and his personality, but he did some dodgy things even before the war crime of Iraq, such as the Formula One fiasco.  He will be looked at, no doubt, as both a moderniser, war criminal and the person responsible for much of the pain resulting from on line gambling.

The BBC documentaries on both Thatcher and Blair were excellent, and reinforced many of my opinions.  I wonder what a similar documentary will say about Cameron.

Which brings me on my thought for the day.  Somewhere in the mid tens the world became more fractious.  And many became less interested understanding politics getting their information from less reliable and more biased sources.  A far more divided country and world.  Not sure how much of the coalition government contributed to this, it was benign in some respects, with LD blunting perhaps some of the more extreme policies of their Tory partners, but of course we know what happened to the LDs at the next election.  The early stage of blaming civil servants was not very helpful (and followed by successive governments including Starmer, in part.  Austerity definitely contributed to decimation of the public services and perhaps an even more alienated group of 'have nots'.

Then Labour missed the open goal of the 2015 election, the Tories played it very savvy in their campaign and of course the LDs were routed.  I fully expect that Brexit will be seen by historians as the turning point/watershed.  I'm still scarred 8 years later, and have lost 'friends' and still have some awkwardness with family members.  How much Brexit begat Farage begat Trump I don't know.  I expect the tide was turning across the west, but the UK helped accelerate this.  Many were already turning away from conventional sources of information - I remember before Brexit seeing a 25 year olds news feed and it was all one lines echoing the Daily Mail, we are all 'going to hell in a handcart'. 

The failure to invest by more recent Tory governments when lending was cheap, the continued mess of Brexit (and the negative impact on our economy), then the relative unavailability of Covid and Ukraine, and here we are now.  The elephant in the room is managed migration, I'm being served by Indian students in bars in London, rather than French or Eastern Europeans.  No issue for me.  Students have always worked in bars.  But there is an enormous gig/minimum wage job  sector out there that relies on foreign workers which I can't get my head around.

Looking forward to you sorting out this mess PM.  I think there have been some poor handling and timing issues, and some decisions not made that would have peed many off (anything to do with cars!) which were a missed opportunity with such a large majority.  Diluting commitments on nationalisation of the rail network/operators being another prime example.  I don't run with the more extreme and somewhat viral view of its a catastrophe.  Yet.  Just a very much first school term report as should have done much better.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by malumbu

[diable rouge]

i) 5.5% pay increase for public sector, implemented by Starmers Govt

2.8% pay increase offered to public sector in addition to the 5.5% increase given July 2024

Just to clarify...

The new government has accepted the pay recommendations of the independent Pay Review Bodies (PRBs), meaning that public sector employees will see their pay increase by between 4¾% and 6% in 2024–25, depending on occupation.

The 2.8% rise is for the following tax year, and at the time of writing is only a recommendation by Gov depts and  nothing has been implemented.  

Obvious question...in light of years of austerity cuts when public sector workers have received little or next to nothing in pay increases in real terms, why is giving them a pay increase a bad thing? Is it any wonder public services across the board are failing, staff morale is low, and with skilled worker shortages that lead to an ever increasing dependency on overseas workers to plug the gaps. 

Even with this year's rise, public sector pay rises still lag behind the private sector, latest ONS figures for Aug - Oct show that private sector pay grew at an annual pace of 5.4%, while the public sector was only 4.3%.

If we're going to be a serious country again we need fully functioning public services, and that includes a workforce that is paid accordingly... 

[jazzer]

What scares me most is Trump in office in the New Year, Farage on his second coming to lead yet another Party that isn't even a proper Party and Starmer, Reeves and Rayner and go walking into one self inflicted catastrophe after another.

That is not to say that Theresa, Boris and Liz also did the same thing, walking into blunder after blunder, May had to go as she stalled politics for three years, Boris had to go because he was out of control, Liz Truss had to go as she had no idea and Rishi + Jeremy tried to steady the ship and were turning things around. He then had to call the election, the rest is history. We now have had nearly 6 months of Starmergeddon and it isn't getting any better.    

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, diable rouge said:

Obvious question...in light of years of austerity cuts when public sector workers have received little or next to nothing in pay increases in real terms, why is giving them a pay increase a bad thing?

It's not a bad thing but when the government gives junior doctors 25%+, accepts the pay review recommendations (they don't have to) and then tells WASPI women - sorry, we can't afford your compensation, or they remove the Winter Fuel Allowance - it creates bitterness. What they meant to say is "we can't afford it for you". And when you see the role the unions of said public sector workers played in the run-up to the election you can start putting the pieces of the jigsaw together for yourselves....which is why teachers are so angry because they feel they got duped or aren't getting their part of the spoils of victory.

[jazzer]

If I was working and in the space of 5 months was offered a combined 8.3%, I'd be happy with that. If 8.3% is not enough, how much do they expect?

[diable rouge]

43 minutes ago, jazzer said:

If I was working and in the space of 5 months was offered a combined 8.3%, I'd be happy with that. If 8.3% is not enough, how much do they expect?

Not as happy as if you worked in the private sector and had the average combined pay rise of 10.8%...

[malumbu]

2 hours ago, jazzer said:

What scares me most is Trump in office in the New Year, Farage on his second coming to lead yet another Party that isn't even a proper Party and Starmer, Reeves and Rayner and go walking into one self inflicted catastrophe after another.

That is not to say that Theresa, Boris and Liz also did the same thing, walking into blunder after blunder, May had to go as she stalled politics for three years, Boris had to go because he was out of control, Liz Truss had to go as she had no idea and Rishi + Jeremy tried to steady the ship and were turning things around. He then had to call the election, the rest is history. We now have had nearly 6 months of Starmergeddon and it isn't getting any better.    

Glad to read that you are on first name terms with so many PMs, I'm not.  This friendliness was half the problem with Johnson - ohh it's Boris, he is a self serving liar that has helped fac the country but he is so funny, I just have to vote for him.

@Rockets, you ar comparing apples with pears

[jazzer]

No I'm NOT on first name terms with them, don't know them, what a strange thing to comment on. Neither May, Johnson or Truss were any good as time showed. Never said I'd vote for any of the three, buy Badenoch would get my vote. 

[diable rouge]

@Rockets Although it's far more nuanced than what you paint, I don't doubt that the optics aren't great. It's the classic conundrum of the economic pie not being big enough to feed everyone. 

For me this stems from the country as a whole and it's obsession with taxes, or rather, to pay as little tax as possible yet expect everything in return. I'm old school and just wished Labout had said they'll stick a penny or two on income tax and be done with it, that it would hopefully only be for a couple of years until we steady the ship, and stop all this slipping and sliding around. But we all know why they didn't. Ditto for Brexit.

Instead of worrying about the optics Labour should've had a series of grown-up conversations about all these issues, but here we are...

[Sephiroth]

"Badenoch would get my vote. "

 

KB is clearly more inept than Truss and just as deranged - it really doesn't speak well to your judgement if you think she has what it takes