The newly landscaped Dulwich Square

[Nigello]

The shops along the road have had nice, new tarmac put down but some imbecile decided to scrawl and scribble wiggly lines around the edges with seemingly indelible white spray paint. What the actual eff? 

[malumbu]

I think that those that like the square and those that don't should meet for a sing off/dance off at the Castle.  This would save scores of posts on the issue.  We could make it a square dance unlike the other event which I understand will be a line dance.  I'm thinking of some relevant songs 

It's hip to be square.  

Edited January 7 by malumbu

[first mate]

58 minutes ago, Nigello said:

The shops along the road have had nice, new tarmac put down but some imbecile decided to scrawl and scribble wiggly lines around the edges with seemingly indelible white spray paint. What the actual eff? 

I noticed that. I hoped it was to indicate where to put paving, or similar. We can only hope.

[march46]

It’s temporary, the Dulwich Estate is due to finish the section by the shops soon.

[Rockets]

There doesn't seem to be any regularity to the pattern of the wriggly lines between the different parts of the paving which is a bit odd. Parts of it look like directions for something to be done to it whilst others don't. And what on earth is the big tree drawn in front of one the shops supposed to indicate...plant tree here, if so that's an odd spot for one?

It's not Egyptian hieroglyphics certainly - maybe coded messages from outer space! 😉

[first mate]

This evening, as I was crossing Dulwich Square at the red lights on foot I was warned by a cyclist on an e-bike, "to be careful" as circumvented me and went sailing through the lights. He was followed by a group of cyclists, around 5, two carrying children, who also all went through the red lights.

 

[Moovart]

13 minutes ago, first mate said:

This evening, as I was crossing Dulwich Square at the red lights on foot I was warned by a cyclist on an e-bike, "to be careful" as circumvented me and went sailing through the lights. He was followed by a group of cyclists, around 5, two carrying children, who also all went through the red lights.

 

Sometimes shouting "Red Light idiots!" at the top of your voice can help to get the message across that pedestrians have priority to cross at that moment in time.  

[CPR Dave]

or replace "idiots" with "c**t". 

[Rockets]

3 hours ago, first mate said:

This evening, as I was crossing Dulwich Square at the red lights on foot I was warned by a cyclist on an e-bike, "to be careful" as circumvented me and went sailing through the lights. He was followed by a group of cyclists, around 5, two carrying children, who also all went through the red lights.

Or maybe take a leaf from Malumbu and shout "s**t happens", they won't know if you're shouting at them or pre-empting the accident they are about to cause - but I bet it will get their attention! 😉

[malumbu]

Very distorted and unnecessary comment.  I was talking about freak events.  

1 hour ago, CPR Dave said:

or replace "idiots" with "c**t". 

Offensive.  You would be better off on nextdoor.com

[Rockets]

9 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Very distorted and unnecessary comment.  I was talking about freak events.  

Which you were saying pedestrians being killed by cyclists were....we know what you were saying. If you're going to say it, as you try to outdo Earl with barbs aimed at anyone who dares challenge your ideology, at least own it if you get called out for it.  Everyone knows what you were saying....

[Earl Aelfheah]

8 hours ago, Rockets said:

Which you were saying pedestrians being killed by cyclists were....we know what you were saying. If you're going to say it, as you try to outdo Earl with barbs aimed at anyone who dares challenge your ideology, at least own it if you get called out for it.  Everyone knows what you were saying....

“ …we know why you were saying”. We don’t. Why but be brave enough to spell out your accusation?

And what’s the reference to me apropos of nothing? You come across as a little obsessed. Don’t get me wrong, I’m flattered, but I suspect you’re not my type.

Edited January 22 by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

I am surprised that our cycling activists, Earl and Malumbu, have absolutely no comment about me being chastised by an e-bike rider for being in his way as he ran a red light, followed by 5 other cyclists, two carrying children. Don't you think this is careless/dangerous or is it just another 'shoulder shrugging' moment, as far as you are concerned?

[Earl Aelfheah]

2 minutes ago, first mate said:

our cycling activists,

I am not a cycling activist. Not in the slightest. Just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it the case. 

[first mate]

Whatever you are then Earl, cycling activist, born again cyclist, I find it odd you have zero response to the behaviour I witnessed yesterday and that I am seeing with increasing frequency. As someone that wants to massively increase the volume of cyclists on our streets, how do you think we should address the issue of cyclists running red lights and cycling on pavements?

[Earl Aelfheah]

12 minutes ago, first mate said:

no comment about me being chastised by an e-bike rider for being in his way as he ran a red light, followed by 5 other cyclists, two carrying children

I can’t comment on everyone of your weekly anecdotes. I’ve said numerous tImes (not that it should need stating, but you seem determined to ascribe views to me that exist only in your imagination), that people should obey road rules, give way to pedestrians (and in the case of cars, to bicycles too), and act in ways that don’t endanger others. 
What I will add is that the sheer number of near misses you have been reporting are extremely worrying and do seem incredibly high.

4 minutes ago, first mate said:

Whatever you are then Earl, cycling activist, born again cyclist

I’m sorry, but why do you insist on labelling me as a ‘born again cyclist’? Because I think the square is an improvement on how the junction was before?

I drive, I walk, I use public transport and occasionally ride a bicycle.  

 

This binary opposition you’ve set up in your head (bike vs cars), is your issue not mine.

Edited January 22 by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

Thank you for finally acknowledging these events are happening.

I am asking what should be done to address these issues? This is a genuine question? I honestly believe it an example of an accident waiting to happen. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

Firstly I would reassure you that the junction has seen far fewer collisions since motor vehicles have been removed (according to the data at least).

With regards the remaining risk posed by the bicycles that still pass through, perhaps the police could do some targeted stops and issue fines for anyone caught jumping lights?

You do seem to report a lot of very regular, angry interactions and near misses with people on bicycles. This is certainly not everyone’s experience of walking around Dulwich. Are these happening in a particular place at a particular time? If so, it may be worth giving this info to the police so they can monitor it.

Honestly, I personally worry more about the number of motor vehicle collisions locally, high rates of speeding and drink / drug driving and would rather see resources targeted there; but if it helps reassure people who do see road safety through this bike vs car lens, then perhaps it’s worth diverting some effort.

Edited January 22 by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

Earl, please cut it out. I am not lying or making things up, as you keep inferring. You keep saying you want a 'good faith' discussion, so try to practise what you preach.

I very much doubt you know what 'everyone in Dulwich Village' experiences or thinks, not least because you do not even live in the area. Does it occur to you that I see stuff you don't because I am a local?

What are the dates for the data you are looking at and what is the data you are comparing it to?  Do we need really need to wait for a couple of accidents to happen before we address this? If as many cars were daily running red light, I am sure you would want it addressed. 

Doing some spot checks would be a great idea and once word gets around it might act as some sort of deterrent. of course, if we can do spot checks for running red lights, without the need for licensing, we could probably do the same for exceeding 20mph (using bye laws).

Despite your statements that changes to the junction are five years old, I must remind you that there have been major changes in only the last 6 months. Visually the area looks very different and I think that may be contributing to some of the behaviour.

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

10 minutes ago, first mate said:

I am not lying or making things up, as you keep inferring

I am sorry if you read it this way

11 minutes ago, first mate said:

not least because you do not even live in the area

Eh?

11 minutes ago, first mate said:

Doing some spot checks would be a great idea and once word gets around it might act as some sort of deterrent.

I agree. I think I just suggested it, no?

[first mate]

Sorry Earl, if you live in ED or DV then I apologise, I thought you lived further afield.

I had suggested spot checks ages ago, to much resistance by some, glad we can now agree this would be useful. Do you also agree to the local 20 mph as well? Of course, this would apply to all road users and I am more than happy for any cars breaking speed limits, running red lights, or god forbid, driving on the pavement, to be penalised.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I do live in ED, yes. I don’t know where you’ve got the impression I live further a field.

Like I said, I would personally rather effort be put into stopping what I see as much more dangerous behaviour (based on the actual data), but accept that it’s important to reassure those who perceive risk differently and so would support some spot checks if it achieved this.

I don’t support 20mph speed limits for push bikes, for reasons I’ve explained at length, but briefly, because I believe it would be disproportionate, and ultimately counterproductive (this is not just my conclusion, it’s been looked at many times before and universally dismissed as impractical and unhelpful). There is another thread for ‘debating’ the idea of speed limits for pedal bikes.

Edited January 22 by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the push bike element, not least because as technology progresses it may become increasingly difficult to distinguish between some push bikes and some e-bikes and, I suspect, dual or hybrid use will become the majority choice, especially round here, where local geography is an obstacle to broader uptake of the push bike.

Must admit, I see more school kids on scooters and Lime bikes, not that many on pushbikes. Not sure the health benefits that clear cut, but there we go.

[snowy]

1 hour ago, first mate said:

Sorry Earl, if you live in ED or DV then I apologise, I thought you lived further afield.

I had suggested spot checks ages ago, to much resistance by some, glad we can now agree this would be useful. Do you also agree to the local 20 mph as well? Of course, this would apply to all road users and I am more than happy for any cars breaking speed limits, running red lights, or god forbid, driving on the pavement, to be penalised.

As has been repeatedly said on the other thread - you can't arbitrarily make up a new law for cyclists & speeding just for Southwark - you need to amend primary legislation on the definition of a 'vehicle' that applies to the whole country. 
 

To do that is a multi year process involving stakeholder consultation, definition of enforcement powers, drafting guidelines, developing Technical Standards, running pilots to prove it works, find a technical solution that's inclusive etc, work out how it"s enforced.

And find a time to have this debated and agreed by both Houses, justifying why this issue is more important than other legislation for an issue with more minimal risk compared to other road users.

or you could raise it with the SNT

[first mate]

Are you sure. I had thought 20mph zones can be placed and enforced using by-laws, which are effected locally by the LA and enforced by them?

FYI 20mph is not a National speed limit, is is discretionary and set at local level, according to need see:

4. The overall speed limit framework, including the setting of national limits for different road types, and which exceptions to these general limits can be applied, is the responsibility of the government. The 3 national speed limits in England are:

• the 30mph speed limit on roads with street lighting (sometimes referred to as restricted roads)
• the national speed limit of 60mph on single carriageway roads
• the national speed limit of 70mph on dual carriageways and motorways

These national limits are not, however, appropriate for all roads. The speed limit regime enables traffic authorities to set local speed limits in situations where local needs and conditions suggest a speed limit that is different from the respective national speed limit.

Edited January 22 by first mate