Goose Green Primary in 'Special Measures'

[muffintop]

Wot asset said.

God forbid, bad parents eh! Want to see their children do well, perhaps better than they did themselves in lives, want to break the poverty circle and guess what, work hard so ensure their kids have more choices than they did in life, should lock them all up in stocks in the village square I say, start the round up now!

[muffintop]

I do have to agree though with someone who mentioned it earlier on this thread, it is not just the schools who should take the blame when things go wrong or have sole responsibility, if parents can't be bothered to support their kids and the schools by ensuring children are taught how to behave correctly or if they do not instill positive learning attitudes into their kids,they cannot then throw their hands up in the air and say the system let my kids down!

[James]

Asset wrote:

>>I would say the crap parents are the ones who don't give a toss about their kids' education and don't get involved with the school or how it is run or try to make a difference.

To call parents crap because they do care is just laughable.

Well said! I am tired of having to listen to people slagging people like me off for trying to do the best for our kids. How exactly would I be helping the community by putting my child into a failing school where he would be unhappy and alienated? Jamma, please feel free to choose whatever school you like for your kids but don't sneer at others' choices. I have worked hard to give my son a solid upbringing. He is a bright, articulate child and I wouldn't dream of allowing him to fester in a failing school.

[Jamma]

Oh god it's the narrow minded-ness that drives me to despair. All this talk of working hard and choices is so very Thatcherite and totally fails to address the point I'm making.

I'm not accusing anyone of not caring about their children's education or not trying to do the best for their kids. But surely the way to do the best for your kids is to have them mix with children of all different backgrounds in a school where the majority of parents take an interest and where those values can be spread to kids who are not fortunate enough to have such enlightened and caring parents. It's about treating your child not as simply 'your child' but as a member of society. When he/she leaves school he/she will have to share the streets with the kids who went to the 'crap' school, kids who won't know how to behave or be disciplined. If there's four schools in an area, one turns out A-grade bourgeois pupils while the other three turn out feral kids then those A-grades aren't going to help your quality of life much are they?

[James]

>>But surely the way to do the best for your kids is to have them mix with children of all different backgrounds in a school where the majority of parents take an interest and where those values can be spread to kids who are not fortunate enough to have such enlightened and caring parents

I find it insulting to be called a Thatcherite. You have a hopelessly naive, deluded view. The only way to achieve what you're saying is to have enforced, full comprehensivisation, and abolish all selective & private schools. Which I agree with, incidentally! Now am I a Thatcherite?

The point is, we have to work within the flawed system we have. If you give people choice you can't expect them to sacrifice their children's education for an idealistic political principle. We're all going to do the best we can for our kids. It's not fair but I didn't design the education system.

[Jamma]

I'm not expecting people to sacrifice their children's education for a political principle. If people followed the principle then everyone would receive a better, well-rounded education and society would benefit.

Of course you didn't design the system but you don't need to accept it. You say you agree with comprehensivisation, so do something about it, you'd feel a better man for it and your child would benefit from having a parent who not only sets a good example by living up to their own ideals but would also feel more confident and happy in themselves as a result.

I'd rather be 'naive, deluded and idealistic' and actually believe in something than cynical and selfish, and I hope my children turn out that way too.

[muffintop]

When he/she leaves school he/she will have to share the streets with the kids who went to the 'crap' school, kids who won't know how to behave or be disciplined.

.....and they ended up that way because? erm I didn't/wouldn't send my child there? Hey, maybe if I send my little one there, he'll turn out just the same and can then mix with society, sorry, but do you see my point? In relation to those who wish to get their kids into good schools as opposed to leaving them in schools that are not just working out, I think personal choice is the issue. You can move the kids to those schools, but what about the teachers? and the school board who ultimately are in charge of the running of the education system in their school? I agree that good schooling is a fundamental right for every parent to expect, and people should not have to move postcodes etc. to ensure a good education, but this is the way it is at the moment and things won't change with the movement of children into less efficient schools, it starts a lot higher up than that and takes a long time too.

[DaveR]

"But surely the way to do the best for your kids is (i) to have them mix with children of all different backgrounds (ii) in a school where the majority of parents take an interest and (iii) where those values can be spread to kids who are not fortunate enough to have such enlightened and caring parents"

(i) & (ii) - agreed

(iii) - a useful and welcome consequence of (i) and (ii)

But this, nevertheless, misses the point. To relate this back to the original topic, Goose Green School, according to OFSTED, is failing because it is badly run. Many parents nearby will send their kids to Dog Kennel or Lyndhurst - hardly bastions of the bourgeoisie, but well run schools which have impressive OFSTED reports as well as lots of satisfied parenst

[Jamma]

So we all just accept that the system is to blame and get on with it rather than trying to change anything? Just accept that there has to a local duff school and it's Goose Green and those that go there can be written off? I feel sorry for those kids and for those people who aren't 'naive, deluded and idealistic' if that's how it's to be

[muffintop]

Sending my child there will not improve the quality of the teachers/teaching systems there Jamma, there a fundamental problems obviously within the school which need to be sorted, nor will sending my child there make other parents be better parents and discipline their children or try to encourage them to be better members of society etc.

[muffintop]

I give up, I must be a million miles away from understanding your point of view Jamma, but understand you are of course entitled to your own opinion, we all have our opinions, correct or incorrect they may be and priorities, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this current one.

[Asset]

My son goes to a good state school that has an 'outstanding' ofsted report. It has an extremely varied mix of kids from all sorts of backgrounds - economic and cultural. This shows that it is not a case of only well-off so-called 'middle-class' pupils that make a good school and sort of negates the point you are making Jamma as it sounds like you are implying that 'good' schools are only made up of kids from one echelon of society.

Now if I live in the catchment area for GG and the one he is at (which I think I do) - which one am I going to choose? Does that make me selfish and naive and narrow minded or does it just make me a) lucky I have that choice and b) doing what is best for my child.

[DaveR]

How can a parent change the management of a school? The quickest way is to vote with your feet - go somewhere else. From what I have been told, that's what happened to Heber, where rolls had fallen to 50% capacity, but within a year or two of a new head being appointed it was oversubscribed, not because it was some sort of middle class paradise but because parents recognised it was heading in the right direction, and, as I have said before, the majority of parents do actually want to send their kids to the nearest school. There doesn't have to be a local duff school but if there is one the rational (not cynical) thing to do is to choose somewhere else.

[EKB2]

Well ED, let?s get ready for more educational nightmares as the new Harris school/academy at the Peckham Rye end of Friern Road goes ahead. It's about to be put forward to the Council?s Planning Committee next week (Ref. 08-AP-0790 if you want to find it on www.southwark.gov.uk).

A few weeks ago I objected to the plans for a second time. Basically, we are being given a ?choice? of no school or a boys? Academy, including 6th form, twinned with the Girls? School at the top of the hill, to house 950 pupils on a tiny site that?s not had more than 350 in the past. The application says the site is 0.72ha, just within legal limits (950 pupils require an absolute minimum of 0.66ha). Actually, I remember it being even smaller - perhaps they found some left-over space somewhere. Maybe I just remembered wrong.

Anyway, of the neighbours consulted, 21 supported, 116 objected. So, the community has been listened to. And the school will go ahead (maybe - apparently it's notorious in architectural circles for its bad design.)

I thought the visual side of the school was kind of OK. But to accommodate that number kids will be ?managed? to a strict timetable of rotating breaks and entry and exit times. Any behaviour problems will be dealt with by inculcating a strong ethos, whatever that means.

There?ll be 30 car parking spaces ? locals won?t then need to worry about losing street parking. Shame the kids won?t have anywhere near the amount of outdoor space allocated as their luckier peers down the road at Dulwich College or Alleyns etc, and shame that boys in a sports specialism school (I am not kidding) will have to be bussed to the sports facilities because, obviously, there ain?t space on site.

This whole saga makes me feel not just angry but powerless. I'd say this shows that parents aren't really in much of a position to affect anything. Not when local and national government (and the business elites to whom education, with most other things, has been handed) show this kind of disdain for young people and are so cavalier about 'consultation' and 'community ownership' of the project.

But back to the point: 950 kids penned into that space. I just don't get it. How can it possibly fail to achieve 'special measures' at the earliest opportunity?

Yours disgusted of ED, a.k.a. EKB2

[bawdy-nan]

And its not as if the harris academies have a particularly good track record either. The Academy at Peckham is one of the schools designated as sufficiently ineffective that they are being threatened with being force to become ... academies!

[DagmarJ]

Well, there is a lot happening at Goose Green right now, so I won't move my child in a hurry but support the school in it's efforts and it'd be great if others in the area didn't write it off too quickly.

[muffintop]

But would I go so far as to consider privately educating my child/children (in EAST DULWICH) if I could afford to? Well that is another matter entirely, actually, (even if I could afford it), I would probably be happy sending my child to a good state school as I believe I am sure he or she would get just as good an education. Home schooling, nope, not at all, because although the child is getting one on one tutoring, he/she would, I fear, lose out so much more socially in so many areas and to be honest, they would end up quite bored, a friend of mine opted to pull her kids out of school to home teach them and has admitted they have probs making friends because of lack of intersocial skills and they become bored much quicker and so attentions spans wander etc. she did let them re-enter mainstream education though after a year or two and was pleasently surprised to see the they were bumped up a year as they were way ahead. God only knows, each to their own, these are merely observations, apart from the home schooling which is based on friend's experience, hope I haven't trod on toes or upset anyone X