Goose Green Primary in 'Special Measures'

[Zaardvark]

Noted this, sadly, the other week in the recent ofsted reports for this area (have a 3 year old):

"Key for inspection grades Grade 1 Outstanding

Grade 2 Good

Grade 3 Satisfactory

Grade 4 Inadequate

Overall effectiveness of the school

Grade: 4

In accordance with section 13 (3) of the Education Act 2005, HMCI is of the opinion that the school requires Special Measures, because it is failing to give its pupils an acceptable standard of education and the persons responsible for leading, managing or governing the school are not demonstrating the capacity to secure the necessary improvement. Pupils do not make sufficient progress in their lessons and their personal development is inadequate. This is largely because much of the teaching in Years 1 to 6 is inadequate and the leadership's monitoring is not strong enough to ensure that teachers fully implement school policies correctly and consistently. Teaching is too inconsistent to arrest a decline in pupils' progress."

Zaardvark

[macroban]

Sad, but expected.

Can anyone here do the job?

[Ondine]

Blimey that's a shame. I had bad experience there when looking for a place for my now 10 year old, but took it things had picked up.

[snorky]

sadly this is a a spiral that is hard to get out of.

GG may once again be the school of last resort for those who dont now any different/ are indiferent to the rankings system. its a black hole that is near impossible to break free of - Even tho I now that GG has really worked hard on this, a bad ofsted effectively rules it out as a possible chice. Its so very very sad

I know of thrusting parents who applied - unrealistically - for schools with a good ofsted and very small catchments areas, despite living a distance away and being offered somewhere that was " unsuitable" for their " gifted " child - the Middle classes are more vocal and ae able to use the system better than the parents of the kids at the bottom of the heap

I fully expect to be royally slagged for even mentioning this, but such is the way of snorky

[cheyanne]

As a parent of kids attending GG, I was quite shocked about the Ofsted report. I have always really liked the school (however my kids are still in KS1). I find the teachers fab, the ones I have had contact with anyway and they always have lots of functions and trips. I do however think they are too soft on discipline, hence the behavior of some pupils. I also know from my own experience some parents think GG is not good enough for them. However the Nursery and reception did well on the Ofsted report, so you get lots of "middleclass" kids in nursery and reception. But when the time come for their child to start year1 they decide to take their child out of the school instead of supporting the school. So if they was to stay on maybe the whole school would be different, a good mixture of people and backgrounds.

[Asset]

It is a vicious circle as someone said earlier, but you really can't blame people for wanting to send their kids to a better school if they can rather than letting them stay at an underperforming school in the 'hope' that it might get better.

As the report states it is the management and teaching that are inadequate not the calibre of the parents whose kids go there.

It sounds like that it needs a makeover of the sort that happened to the school that is now the Charter. If that school managed it, GG can also but it's not going to happen overnight.

[bawdy-nan]

haven't they a;ready been in special measures and wasn't there already a major revamp - new teachers, new head etc. I thought they had been doing really well at turning things around - didn't they, one year, have some of the highest "value added" measures in the country?

I notice also that two of the academies in southwark are being threatened with being forced to become ... academies ... eh? eh? eh?

[citizenED]

At one point it was Grove Vale School - that was re-started as Goose Green School. Seems a pity they couldn't turn it round.

[Louisa]

Lack of discipline, run by Southwark Council with this 1980's method of ethical teaching, kids running riot oh and then we hit special measures stage. Shock bleedin horror.

Louisa.

[Monkey]

One cannot blame the middle classes for being vocal and trying to send their kids to a decent school. It just beggars belief that the middle classes are blamed for just about everything nowadays. It is not their role to pay huge amount of taxes and shut up about it. If they're clever enough to play the system, why shouldn't they? If the system lets them...

[beef]

This isn't a big shock, nor a new thing. While looking at primary schools fifteen years ago now, GG was a 'don't touch with a barge pole' school, as was (now called) Rye Oak Primary. Neither of these schools have had any real sort of improvement despite money and resources thrown at them, as shown by the recent ofsted report. GG does get raves for its preschool and reception classes though, and I have noticed as years go by there is a big exodus generally at the end of KS1 whatever the school or its standards of education. Swathes of middle classes are either leaving London completely or move with (already) and eye on that secondary school catchment area.

I feel the only solution to this is, no, not bring back the cane, but to replace it with an electric cattle prod. The lets see those middle classes try to leave with 40,000 volts up the backside.

[Zaardvark]

Two things would really help schools in this area and in general:

(a) Having an enforced school entry lottery for ANY school within reasonable distance.

(b) Removing private schools' charitable status, forcing costs up and the most 'vocal' parents back into the state sector.

Zaardvark

[TarquinP]

I fear this is the usual reactionary twaddle.

The real issue is the Ofsted framework. Inspectors (contractors) visit a school ro 2/3 days and draw OPINIONS on what they find or dig up. Much of the statistical data is underplayed/ingnored if does not fit. This archaic yardstick is the same if in leafy Surrey or Southwark.

The resulting opinionated report would be liablous in a commercial setting.

And why do the school have no published reply?

Yes, schools need to constantly review the delivery of learning, but primary schools have a more important role, they have to deliver happy, socialised and receptive children into the secondary system, this can be challanging.

I believe that Goose Green has a lot to offer the whole community not just the middle classes. The support the school will get from the LA will mean it is the best resourced and monitored school in the area. (Why they dont do this before there is a problem is anyones guess).

I would advise any parent to read Ofsted report with care. Look at the results, talk to friends and visit the schools.

[bawdy-nan]

TarquinP, have you followed your own advice and actually read the Ofsted report.

There were, indeed,big thumbs up for the nursery and recption with descriptions of children "running eagerly" in to learn.

That later on in their school careers these children could expect dull lessons and to walk their corridors in fear feeling unsafe and that, even if they plucked up the courage to tell, wouldn't really be listened to, is shocking. That the school "measured" itself as excellent at caring for the children when the inspectors, by actually talking to the children, found they felt unsafe and often harried, is awful.

The last bit of the report - the "letter to the pupils" is very sad.

[Ondine]

There's a real issue about leadership here. Headteachers and their senior staff have to build belief in the school. Mine are at Lyndhurst and one of them a bad time in an almost out of control class last year, but the difference was that we were listened to and concerns were acted upon. We reached the point where I left her to discuss issues with her teacher as I was confident about how the school was responding.

[Asset]

FFS - brush that chip off. Honestly.

beef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This isn't a big shock, nor a new thing. While

> looking at primary schools fifteen years ago now,

> GG was a 'don't touch with a barge pole' school,

> as was (now called) Rye Oak Primary. Neither of

> these schools have had any real sort of

> improvement despite money and resources thrown at

> them, as shown by the recent ofsted report. GG

> does get raves for its preschool and reception

> classes though, and I have noticed as years go by

> there is a big exodus generally at the end of KS1

> whatever the school or its standards of education.

> Swathes of middle classes are either leaving

> London completely or move with (already) and eye

> on that secondary school catchment area.

>

> I feel the only solution to this is, no, not bring

> back the cane, but to replace it with an electric

> cattle prod. The lets see those middle classes

> try to leave with 40,000 volts up the backside.

[Louisa]

Oh lets blame Ofsted here shall we, let's just neglect the facts for a moment and continue to live in some sort of fantasy about discipline in schools. I tell you what why dont we just close this place down until it comes upto scratch rather than having to pump thousands into a failing school with kids having to suffer because a few pc fruitcakes cant be bothered to accept the facts about discipline.

Louisa.

[snorky]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh lets blame Ofsted here shall we, let's just

> neglect the facts for a moment and continue to

> live in some sort of fantasy about discipline in

> schools. I tell you what why dont we just close

> this place down until it comes upto scratch rather

> than having to pump thousands into a failing

> school with kids having to suffer because a few pc

> fruitcakes cant be bothered to accept the facts

> about discipline.

>

> Louisa.

the kids who are most likely to have paents who dont give a shite about education are th most likely to kick off when their kid is disciplined I have found - soemwhere like GG really cant win

[reenie40]

Louisa - do you have, or have you had children who attend this school? Some friends have a daughter there who is very happy, and when I have visited the school to attend plays etc I have been really impressed by the amount of effort put in by the parents, children and teachers. Although Ofstead reports can offer some useful guidelines, I'm not convinced that in 2 to 3 days you can really get a full feeling of what a school is like. I have heard of a school marked as unsafe because some children (being children) ran past the ofstead inspectors on the stairs. From knowing those involved with the school I'm sure they will do everything they can to address any issues raised, and I believe the new head that is in place is very effective. Surely the kids would suffer more if the school was just closed down - and how could you judge that it had been 'brought up to scratch' if there was no one attending?

[pepperkinski]

And furthermore, what are these 'facts' about discipline PC fruitbats are missing?

[Mark]

Please be aware that Louisa has been known to post messages that are merely meant to antagonise, see her other posts. I suggest that you ignore her and her message.

[Louisa]

I have had experience with friends and family who have been subjected to some of the pc liberal schools in this area and have left school with little or no understanding of the basic principles of obedience, listening, morality and learning - all basics that SHOULD be learnt from a young age in a disciplined environment like a school. It's all very well claiming a school is great and you cant judge something based on a few days worth of monitoring, but equally if a school were upto scratch I am pretty sure most ofstead inspectors would see more good than bad and come to the conclusion that a school was not failing. There must be some pretty fundamental failures in all areas at this school for it to be put on special measures, the same happened with Kingsdale School locally a decade or more ago and it is now one of the best achieving state run secondary schools in inner south London. Investment should be made in all areas, including discipline before any more money is wasted on propping up a sinking ship. I for one would rather see the children of this school put elsewhere and given the oppurtunities they deserve rather than be kept there for the rest of their early school years and made to suffer.

Louisa.

[reenie40]

I am aware some of Louisas previous posts and wouldn't wish to take on her formidable typing fingers! I just feel that it can be easy to generalise (I do it myself all the time), but it this case I am actually familiar with some of the people involved in the school and know how much effort is being put in to try to make it a 'good' school that people want their children to attend. Anywhere there are children there are going to be discipline issues. I'm sure now the report is in everything is being looked at again and will hopefully be resolved with the minimum possible disruption to the children

[mamafeelgood]

louisa, do you believe that it is a schools responsibility to teach children discipline? do you not consider that maybe (as is considered on the continent) this responsibility should not lie with the state but with the parents from the age 0 onwards? that without parents supporting discipline in schools children will never learn respect? surely, an issue as massive as lack of respect and discipline in society at all ages (from school playground to road rage etc...) cannot be answered with yet another trite class quip?

having only experienced state education in london i truly believe that schools need all the community and parental support that they can get, not a drubbing on a local website that is dogged with it's usual ridiculous class statements. i attended an award winning comp that i now hear, 20 years on, is being closed down. why? because more and more parents are terrified with what they read and are too scared to send their kids to the local state school. this creates sink schools that benefit no one.

get rid of charitable status for private schools that would be a great start. as i have mentioned before across the channel a private school is for children underachievers not the privileged few.

so there you go cliches if you want but: working class discipline your own, stop relying on the state. middle classes stop deserting areas for better post codes/schools. upper classes get out of your ivory towers and spread the love.

the point is EVERYONE plays a part in this.

[beef]

Sorry Asset, it's not a chip but a whole bag of potatoes. Your idea that the school merely needs a makeover 'like charter' is quite laughable,as just this week I've had two teachers from Charter telling me (unprompted) what a hellhole the school is and how unmanageable the classes were. A lick of paint solves nothing, and there is the old maxim to consider 'you cannot teach a child anything, only give them the opportunity to learn'. The quality of teachers and curriculum could be top notch, but if your pupils are mentally, emotionally and socially unprepared for learning then you're not going to get very far. Back in '93 or '94 a friend of mine started their children at GG along with a large group of 'middle class' parents with the idea of 'if enough of us go there it will get better'. Suffice to say not one of them lasted more than a year. If I was to be sensible and not bore you with glib cattle prod 'jokes', I would say that the way to improve GG school is... actually, I haven't got a clue beyond some sort of unfeasible and distasteful social engineering project. I do applaud any extra cash and help the school does get as I have known parents and pupils who were very happy there and I do wish it every success, but I must live in the real world and say that unless there is a shift in demographic within the school there may be little chance of improvement.