Such a shame the Odeon and bowling at Surrey Quays has gone

[Rockets]

Went to book a film to find Surrey Quays Odeon is no more. Such a shame, I didn't realise everything was being  shut there. Used to love a bit of bowling at the Hollywood Bowl too.

https://southwarknews.co.uk/area/rotherhithe/surrey-quays-odeon-cinema-confirms-august-closure-date/

[Earl Aelfheah]

I think it’s great that they’re replacing a huge expanse of car parking with housing. Just hope the design is decent and that they manage to incorporate some mixed use (hopefully with a new bowling place and a cinema) into the scheme.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

On the upside, the P13 bus is ready to whisk you directly to the Odeon in Streatham. And failing that there's the mighty Peckhamplex, the Ritzy, the East Dulwich or West Norwood Picturehouses, the one up on Crystal Palace, and even Whirled Cinema. We're doing okay for cinemas!

[malumbu]

I visit Decathlon from time to time but as others have said  regards to the cinema there are good alternatives nearby and London desperately needs housing.  Separately it can be horrid and congested in the area, although I only ever cycle or use public transport to get there.  There are some lovely walks in that area, obviously the river, but also Stave Hill and the other green areas that were formally small docks.  You can continue the walk to the farm and then onto the Dog and Bell at Deptford for lunch.

Edited Sunday at 13:36 by malumbu

[gebbjane]

And for bowling just jump on the 185 as Lewisham Lanes is great.  Or if you want a Hollywood Bowl they still have one at the O2.

[Hen123]

There is an AllStars at Shoreditch is quite good too. Easy to get to on the Overground line. 

Edited yesterday at 10:09 by Hen123

[Earl Aelfheah]

Not much detail, but has to be better than the massive car park that takes up most of the area currently:  https://www.canadawater.co.uk/

[Rockets]

Earl, I think you're being blinkered by the car park - it is the loss of the cinema, bowling alley and Pizza Hut that have been such a focal point for many Surrey Quays residents (and those, like us, who travelled to them to use them) that is the issue. I bet those who used the facilities (and they were always really busy whenever we visited them) are overjoyed that they are being replaced by a bigger supermarket and a load of new (what look like really expensive) homes.....The first development in the area is a loft-style living space called The Founding and prices start from £700,000 for a one-bed up to £1.9m for a 3-bed. I now realise this is why PrintWorks shut down too.

The Canada Water Masterplan (as the developers refer to it) should probably be renamed the Canada Water Gentrification Plan.

https://southwarknews.co.uk/area/rotherhithe/im-there-every-other-day-locals-heartbroken-over-surrey-quays-leisure-park-closure/

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

7 hours ago, Rockets said:

it is the loss of the cinema, bowling alley and Pizza Hut

Oh no - that was a heritage Pizza Hut, wasn't it?

 

Luckily there are 4 other pizza places within half a mile.

[malumbu]

Odd comment about high end development at Surrey Quays - when the docks went most of the area became very gentrified, thirty plus years ago   There's the odd bit of old school working class left.  

Go a mile the other way, and very old school, but I don't see anyone reminiscing about closed pubs off Trundleys Road and the like ,  the loss of New Cross Greyhound stadium or the Venue 

Edited 18 hours ago by malumbu

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I would not describe the area as very gentrified, esp not the bit that was built 30 years ago. It's human scale, low rise flats and terraces mixed on cul de sacs for the most part, but it's not knee deep in Gail's and, candle shops and luxury butchers.

The cluster of new blocks of flats near the new Decathlon and Canada Water tube is shinier- but tbh that's just what modern blocks of flats look like these days. Everything gets promoted by estate agents as luxury.

More housing is good, whatever the type - dumping supply on the market always helps. I am sure there will be adequate provision for pizza restaurants and entertainment in the new mixed use development.

And don't forget everyone's favourite Dulwich Library also has a ~free~ film club for adults: https://www.southwark.gov.uk/libraries/adults/library-activities-for-adults

[Rockets]

Removing a high-usage cinema and bowling alley to replace it with a supermarket and expensive homes (at a cost well out of reach for the vast majority of local residents) should not be something that is championed just because it is removing parking spaces. At those sort of prices the developers are catering to the Canary Wharf and City banking types who want a short commute to the office - not the existing local community. This is why there is an constant flow of people out of London and why primary schools are closing left, right and centre - because developers behind things like the Canada Water Masterplan (not sure masterplan was the best name to give it as it suggests some sort of social cleansing) like this are only interested in catering to the high-margin, high earner market:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyjwy5951lo#:~:text=People are leaving inner London,space in the outer suburbs

 

Dumping supply is not good if the supply is only at the high-end, high-margin end of the market.

 

Southwark News asked if there were plans for a cinema and bowling alley to replace the ones closed. Their response suggests that there will actually probably be an over-priced "artisan" coffee shop selling the finest Yak-dung coffee, a sandwich shop called Kumquat, a hot yoga studio and a We Work!!! 😉 

We asked them if there was due to be a bowling alley, cinema and facilities similar to the ones due to close.

Whilst British Land said they were ‘committed’ to delivering a variety of leisure and entertainment options, they were unable to confirm whether these facilities in particular would return.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

How many people currently live in the pizza chain, bowling alley, cinema and car park?

This is classic NIMBYBANOTE (not in my back yard but also not over there either) posting. "Oh no, don't let investors knock down the sad postindustrial sheds and replace them with housing and shops and dining and entertainment! Won't someone think of the Pizza Hut???"

[Rockets]

2 minutes ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

How many people currently live in the pizza chain, bowling alley, cinema and car park?

How many local people currently use said pizza chain, cinema and bowling alley? How many local people will move into one of the new homes built over it?

If you welcome over-priced houses, are a fan of gentrification and a bit of social cleansing to boot good for you! I am not.

Go ask the people who use to live in Elephant and Castle about the impact this type of development has on a local community - developers don't build anything now for the incumbents.

I am still chuckling to myself that people actually thought this was a good thing on the basis that it removed car parking space - it just shows how blinkered people can be - it's a very special branch of champagne socialist that has those thoughts!!!! 😉 

[Sue]

57 minutes ago, Rockets said:

How many local people currently use said pizza chain, cinema and bowling alley? How many local people will move into one of the new homes built over it?

If you welcome over-priced houses, are a fan of gentrification and a bit of social cleansing to boot good for you! I am not.

Go ask the people who use to live in Elephant and Castle about the impact this type of development has on a local community - developers don't build anything now for the incumbents.

I am still chuckling to myself that people actually thought this was a good thing on the basis that it removed car parking space - it just shows how blinkered people can be - it's a very special branch of champagne socialist that has those thoughts!!!! 😉

To be fair, as I understand it the development at the Elephant reserved a number of spaces for people who had small businesses or shops in the original space.

I have only been there once, a while ago,  to have a look round,  but there is also if memory serves  at least one place there which is a sort of community hub for local artists etc.

The planting is well thought out, and on the whole I thought the area was a great improvement on what was there before.

Things move on, otherwise many people would still be living in places with toilets in an outhouse and no heating.

I think it's easy to look at the downsides of a development like this, but there are upsides as well.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

1 hour ago, Rockets said:

How many local people currently use said pizza chain, cinema and bowling alley?

Does London need more housing or more pizza shops?

[Rockets]

40 minutes ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

Does London need more housing or more pizza shops?

Does London need more high-end, high-cost, high-margin housing - is that where the need really is - especially as more working families are being forced out of the capital because of the cost? Do the people who currently live in Surrey Quays need more high-end, high-cost housing at the cost of their leisure facilities?

 

You're trying to distract about the Pizza Hut - I am looking at the big picture and this is a gentrification trend which ultimately harms London and the people who live in it. Perhaps you quite like the idea of a £1.9m 3 bed loft style apartment - unfortunately for most that's not a realistic target.

 

1 hour ago, Sue said:

I think it's easy to look at the downsides of a development like this, but there are upsides as well.

The upsides tend to be reserved only for those who can afford to live there and, for most, those aren't the people who may have called it home for the whole of their lives.

[Sue]

1 hour ago, Rockets said:

The upsides tend to be reserved only for those who can afford to live there and, for most, those aren't the people who may have called it home for the whole of their lives.

Couldn't you say the same about, for example, "slum clearances" in the past?

Also, what happened to the people who lived on the Elephant estates? Were they all cast out onto the streets?

I know someone who has lived in a council flat in Surrey Quays for decades. To the best of my knowledge he has never been to either the bowling alley, the cinema or the pizza place.

There are probably many people like him.

I'm not sure why this discussion is in the local section? Surrey Quays is hardly within walking distance of East Dulwich, unless you have a lot of time and a lot of energy!

And that particular part of it is not very easy to reach from here on public transport.

Edited 3 hours ago by Sue

[Earl Aelfheah]

This is so weird. London desperately needs new housing. They're taking a massive car park and creating 3,000 new homes, a 3.5 acre park, revitalised wetlands, new shops and offices. I hope that the designs are decent, and that there is some affordable housing, but whilst it's often true that the 'devil is in the detail', it's very hard to argue that the below is a better use of space than new housing, jobs, retail and public realm:

..some info on what's proposed here btw (a bit scant on detail): https://www.canadawater.co.uk/canada-water-masterplan

Edited 3 hours ago by Earl Aelfheah

[malumbu]

I expect few on this site can lecture about the evils of gentrification, as we live in a very gentrified area and many have benefitted from this.  It's good to poke fun, self- deprecating.  There is a wider discussion on affordable housing, which the new government needs to address.  Meanwhile as rental costs and cost of housing goes up many will move to outer boroughs and beyond.  Lounge talk though.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Apparently the commitment to 'affordable' homes (we could have a whole thread on what 'affordable means in this context) is:

Quote

...around 3,000 new homes. 35% of homes will be affordable, split 70% social rent housing and 30% intermediate affordable housing.... Six out of every 10 of these affordable homes will be two or more bedrooms, so suitable for families.

Seems a better than the current, huge expanse of car parking imo.

Edited 3 hours ago by Earl Aelfheah

[Sue]

Does anybody have stats on the proportion of people local to this massive car park who actually use the pizza place, bowling alley and cinema?

Or the proportion of people using the pizza place, bowling alley and cinema who live, say, within a mile of it?

Thought not.

It seems to me that the green spaces which are going to be incorporated will be much more beneficial all round. 

Southwark Park (the nearest park, I believe?) is nice, and well used by these mysterious "local" people.

If there is going to be a larger supermarket than the one already there, then that's also benefitting the local people, isn't it?

Presumably there will be a supermarket  car park for those who can afford to buy and run a car and don't care about the cost to the environment?

Edited 3 hours ago by Sue

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

1 hour ago, Rockets said:

The upsides tend to be reserved only for those who can afford to live there and, for most, those aren't the people who may have called it home for the whole of their lives.

No-one has ever called the Pizza Hut or the car park or the bowling alley or the cinema "home". 

[Earl Aelfheah]

There are quite a few other cinemas nearby, and may well be one in the new development as I understand it. The bowling alley is a shame, but again there are others (Lewisham and Greenwich).

As for pizza hut. I mean come on, seriously?

If your vision for London is more strip malls / huge car parks with warehouse style chains dropped around them, well I don't know what to say tbh 

Edited 3 hours ago by Earl Aelfheah

[rjsmall]

58 minutes ago, Sue said:

Does anybody have stats on the proportion of people local to this massive car park who actually use the pizza place, bowling alley and cinema?

Or the proportion of people using the pizza place, bowling alley and cinema who live, say, within a mile of it?

Thought not.

I used to live up in that direction and quite a lot of locals (families and teenagers) used the bowling alley and cinema. It was reasonably inexpensive for London and certainly cheaper than going to the West End especially for eating out. One of the nice things about Rotherhithe is (or was) the amount of green space and scarcity of tall buildings. 

It is very easy to get to from here - Overground from Peckham Rye to Surrey Quays or P12 bus.