Southwark Dogs in Parks public consultation - deadline 16 Sept 2013

[keane]

It wasnt just on the forum - this is the wording from Southwarks website see below: & it was on park notice boards. Don't know whether it was also given out etc:

Dogs in parks

We want you to have your say

Southwark Council welcomes responsible dog owners and their dogs to our parks and open spaces. Unfortunately incidents relating to dogs have been reported, and we want to address this.

We think that irresponsible dog owners are in the minority, but they are costing the tax payer money spent on clearing up dog fouling, and affecting the enjoyment of some visitors to our parks.

Survey 2013

At this year's Friends Conference we asked members of the public what they thought the issues were. We have used their suggestions to create an online survey about dogs in parks. Please fill it in to let us know your views, by the deadline of 16 September 2013.

This is your chance to give us your point of view, which we will use to create a report and will influence any action we might take.

What the council does now

Additional to our park by-laws, we also have dog related by-laws which specify where dogs must be kept on leads and dog prohibited areas

The Dog (Fouling of Land) Act 1996 applies to all public areas in the country, and allows councils to issue Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNs) to owners who do not clean up after their dog. Park Liaison Officers patrol our parks and can issue Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNs) for offences, including dog fouling

Southwark has two FIDO machines, which clean up dog fouling in all of our parks across the borough. Many of our medium and large parks have designated "no dogs" areas

Dog waste bags are free from Southwark?s libraries and park offices. We have 316 dog waste bins, and are spreading the word that dog waste can now be disposed of in litter bins too

The council holds some dog events, dog shows and supplies tool kits. At some events we also offer free microchipping. You can find information on our website about responsible dog ownership

We have a Dog Action Group, who meet regularly and work with the Police, Battersea Dogs Home and the RSPCA

A Dog Control Order (DCO) is in place at One Tree Hill. Due to issues with people taking large numbers of dogs into this nature reserve, handlers are now limited to four dogs at one time. Continue reading for more information about DCOs

Dog Control Orders (DCOs)

There are four different types of DCO that can be introduced:

Dogs must be placed on a lead when asked to by an authorised officer

Dogs must be kept on a lead at all times

Dogs are not allowed in a specified area at any time

Restriction on number of dogs in a specified area

DCOs give authorised council officers the power to issue Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNs) to an owner who does not comply with the rules of the DCO

The council cannot introduce a DCO without extensive consultation, as set out by the government

Dog fouling and health risk

Dog fouling is not just unpleasent, it can also be dangerous. Accidental contact with dog faeces can make you unwell.

Toxocara canis (Roundworm) is carried by infected dogs and can cause blindness in humans.

The infection is most common in small children, who are more likely to touch dog faeces while playing.

What happens next?

We will analyse the results of the survey, and produce a report with recommendations of what actions should be taken.

Please make sure you are on our mailing list to receive updates on this project.

To join the project mailing list, if you have any questions, or if you would like a paper copy of the survey, please contact [email protected]

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[Zombiemonkey]

I strongly disagree with this. How many rules do we want in this world? Enough of this heavily bureacratic, nanny/ big- brother state. I am not a dod walker, but know many of them. First of all they provide a service that we need, and their trade will only continue if it is sustainable for them (and I really don't want my dog walker to go and find a "regular" job believe me, took long enough to find a good one!!). Secondly, the number of dogs is irrelevant, it about how trustworthy the dogs are and about how well behaved/ well trained by the owners they are. You can walk 6 to 8 well behaved dogs with no problem, whilst having lots of problems walking just the one, if it's poorly behaved. (good) dog walkers are the experts, and should be sole judge of numbers. Not some poor sod behind a computer screen in an office, who's never had any exerience with dogs.... Dogs are living creatures with different needs, you can't bring maths into this....

[Zombiemonkey]

Nicely said, totally agree!

[Zombiemonkey]

It's a real shame that there is such prejudice against dog owners. We currently live in a homocentric world and let's face it, it's not working well is it?

[keane]

I'm not sure where the prejudice is when the blurb starts off with, 'we welcome responsible dog owners & their dogs to Southwark parks?!'

[Zombiemonkey]

By "increased issues", do you mean witnessing dog owners being bullied? Because yes, I have plenty examples of that, gathered over the years. As I said in my later post, I have been verbally, physically abused, been threatened, been spat at, had my dogs kicked, had a glass bottle waved in my face by the dad of a child playing football on a Sunday (in front of his kids), etc... etc... Lost count over the past 10 years I've had the "audacity" to have dogs. Not to mention the number of times I was left to take care of complete strangers? children in pubs, as they let them "stroke the cute puppies" and dumping them with me to deal with, too paralytic to look after their own kids...But that's ok, I guess! Except that if my dogs even growled at them in impatience, they could have faced being "put to sleep".

[keane]

They are not my words zombie monkey I have pasted the Southwark info on the survey as other posters were asking about it. I said it was from the Southwark website.

[Zombiemonkey]

Yes sure! Great idea! Let?s have a ?law? to muzzle all pet dogs. Then foxes, badgers, squirrels, rats, mice, cats as well, why not? Then what next? Delinquents, alcoholics, drug addicts, homeless people?. Let?s keep going!

[Zombiemonkey]

Nicely said

[Zombiemonkey]

Hey guys, why don't we meet to discuss these? The Ivy house is meant to re- open soon, we could kill 2 birds with one stone, make the most of the community pub, and come up with a plan of action to protect our right to using public parks? Just an idea here....

[chuff]

I'm off to Dulwich park shortly so will look on the notice board. I assumed it would be a printed stack of surveys so my mistake if it is indeed on the board. However, I would expect southwark to inform all residents for such an important issue, I as many I think, only knew of it through this forum.

[elloriac]

I haven't been in the gate by the cafe at Peckham Rye Park, but the noticeboards that I have seen there just have a notice about the survey giving the web address and the phone number to call if you need a printed copy.

[chuff]

Yes that's what's on the dulwich one, saw it today. Honestly wouldn't have noticed it if not for the forum.

[davidh]

mako

I walk the dogs every day in peckham rye park, sometimes twice a day. I know that in the winter months, very few people without dogs are there. we all want the bloody council to leave us alone.

[Zombiemonkey]

Hi guys,

was given this leaflet this morning, (attached), the email address is [email protected], apparently Nick is organising a meeting at the clock house next weekend. I saw the offending surveys on a table of Rye Hill Park's office. Also saw posters in the display boards. A lot of people were talking about this survey this morning. Oh, and I picked someone else's dog poo there BTW, was right on the paths by the floower beds. People who leave dog mess behing are not helping our cause...

P.S. just realised my previous posts don't make sense, as when you reply to someone's message your post go right at the bottom of the thread...apologies for that, it's only my second time using this forum- duh!!

[chuff]

Annoying, I'm away next weekend but will email him to add myself to future meetings.

I picked up 3 poos today that weren't my dogs, 2 were friends dogs that I took round while they supervised football matches but one was a random spot in the bushes! I will continue to do it now, as vile as it is, it might just make a difference :)

[MarleyLover]

Like I posted earlier - Dogs are the latest species to become extinct!!

[Haerton]

I noticed a poster advertising the consultation on the gate to a children's play area, where dogs are not permitted. Hmm, targeting on those pre-disposed to greater restrictions perchance?

I agree that the design of the survey is skewed, and will encourage those who simply don't like dogs (irrespective of fouling, "incidents" etc.) to respond. My partner and I own a 1 year old cockapoo puppy, and I like to think we are responsible owners. I wouldn't dream of leaving poo on the ground (I find it pretty disgusting too); we invested in a puppy training and socialisation course, and respect by-laws and restrictions. However, I increasingly feel like I'm committing a criminal act just by walking in the park. I have lost count of the number of occasions when I've been shouted at and spat at, when parents have encouraged their children to scream or shout at my dog - even when he is on his lead. Now, I just see this as intolerance plain and simple. Heaven knows where we would end up if we started banning things just because we don't like them.

I, for instance, don't particularly like children. They are noisy, messy and often cause trouble (the number of children-related incidents I've seen in parks...). I can honestly say they ruin my day-to-day enjoyment of a community facility, and I can see the attraction of child-free zones in parks or areas where children should be kept on reins or in push-chairs. But I'm also tolerant, and respect the rights of others. Even (especially) when they are in the minority. We all, after all, have to rub along together and the world would be a terribly mundane place if we all liked the same things or insisted on uniformity. It's just a shame that so many others, often those who perceive themselves to be the most liberal and community-spirited, see the city as their own special personal domain.

Also, some cyclists cause problems in parks. Some motorists cause all sorts of problems on the roads. Teenagers can be little monsters. People drinking in parks (yes, even those lovely middle class people enjoying a bottle or 3 of decent Gavi on a sunny afternoon) can be terribly antisocial. Whether you tolerate or endure these ne'erdowells, just imagine what sort of city we would end up living in if we simply banned these things. It should be everyone's responsibility to challenge wrong-doing when they witness it, rather than resorting to the Council to intervene.

Quite apart from these arguments against further restrictions, simply restricting further or banning or prohibiting or whatever Southwark and the canine-haters really seem to want JUST WON'T WORK. Those who are already responsible will be punished and restricted. Those who are irresponsible will continue. Why can't Southwark invest some effort and resources into enforcing the restrictions that are already in place? Councils have significant powers to punish transgressors, and I for one would be more than happy to be able to walk my dog without fear that he'll be attacked by a aggressive beast roaming the street with a bunch of high teenagers. or, indeed, without fear that I'll tread on poo.

Oh, and I'd like to point out that I'm a tax-payer. A high tax payer, actually, and I have just as much right to enjoy community facilities as anyone else.

[spider69]

Well said a sensible and balanced point of few. It would be interesting for Cllr Barber to inform us just how many incidence re dogs have taken place , say for the last year in Dulwich Park.

A Cllrs enquiry to Head of Service might show if any change is required for Duwich Park.

All reports must have been noted and a reference number isssued.

Do i expect Southwark to produce this...No

[Ann]

I agree Haerton. I've been a dog owner here for many years. In all honesty I can't say I've experienced any 'ante social behavior' other than an interested dog approaching a bitch who doesn't appreciate their advances! Restricted areas could seriously curtail many dogs' enjoyment of our parks.

I have a small back garden and I'm well aware that many local residents have garden at all. Most of us (I believe ) who own dogs are well aware that our park spaces are a premium as this summer has proved.

We pay plenty tax in our family too and I'm grateful for the lovely spaces we have for dogs and children alike.

On a personal level I would hate our locality to be deprived of dogs; the very fact that we have such wonderful open spaces makes dog ownership as diverse as it is.

[mako]

Still no one has answered what the benefit to southwark council is for banning dogs? Those in denial that there are any dog related incidents only need to read the last couple of threads where chuff and zombiemonkey picked up four poos that werent theirs on the same day and haerton who has lost the number of times they has been spat and shouted at due to having a dog. These are dog related incidents in the park that the council suggest are increasing and many of the above threads offer evidence of that. They are looking to address these incidents hopefully reducing the confrontation the likes of haerton regularly experience. They are not proposing a ban.

[mako]

Haerton

I think your post would have been better if you had missed out the moaning about children, cyclists, teenagers, motorists and those enjoying a drink, as it makes you sound a little less tolerant than you state you are. Oh and i'd like to point out that i think the fact you are a high tax payer is as relevant as the fact that your dog doesnt pay tax.

[keane]

was Haerton ever a child or did he/she emerge into the world as a fully grown adult therefore skipping being a child?!

The notice to take part in the survey was on the boards at all the gates, not just the playground. No one has ever suggested banning dogs. The survey may not be worded very well but the whole thing starts off with 'we welcome dogs in Southwark Parks' doesn't sound like anyone is proposing banning dogs in parks which would be nonsense. Just for all dog owners to pick up poo & keep dogs on lead or off lead in the designated areas?

[ellieaness]

I have to assume Haerton's point was to show how ridiculous it is to essentially alienate any one user from the parks on the basis of the behaviour of a few.

I can also understand, how for parents who've been affected, this becomes a more emotive, and perhaps less balanced, perspective than those who haven't.

I'm neither a dog owner nor a parent, but I do intend to complete the survey as I think that the responsible majority have a right to use the public space and, as has been pointed out before, lots of the problems highlighted are caused by general antisocial behaviour of all levels. That's something that needs to be addressed separately and, if I knew the answer, I'm sure I'd be a top ranking government advisor instead of 'grumpy of ED'.

[LadyDeliah]

Mako, First-Mate explained the benefit to the council pages ago.

The council have sold most of the school playing fields. Schools are expanding and the kids need playing fields. Get rid of dogs from parks, hey presto, playing fields.

Simples.