Southwark Dogs in Parks public consultation - deadline 16 Sept 2013

[mako]

Also miacus, please stop asking for statistics because the type of incidents being referred to are not necessarily the type that would get recorded, and that is why no ban has been proposed. You yourself say that on sundays you keep your dog on the lead. The council agrees with you rhat there are times and places when this is necessary but as not all owners are as considerate as you they are proposing a policy to highlight what is acceptable. What is with the conspiracy theory that they are against dogs anyway? What benefit is there to the council if banning dogs?

[mako]

For those who cant be bothered to actually complete the survey from the council, there is no option to say that you want dogs banned from the park because they have zero intention of banning dogs from the park. If they do have an agenda as such i would suggest they are looking to try and tackle fouling through increased measures and perhaps reducing the number of dogs that one person can bring into the park to four. Seems perfectky reasonable to me and i would have thought reasonable to most park users, dog owners included.

[taper]

When are LB Southhwark going to do something about this dogs p1ssing on posts menace?

[first mate]

Taper,

I'm tempted to say "stop urining"- but I know you're being ironic ;)

[Kipperr]

This so called public consultation is not about dog mess at all as I agree with "spider69" there are no more dogs now than in the past. This is about Southwark welcoming "families and their children" to their parks and open spaces. Southwark says in their questionnaire dog owners who in the minority are costing tax payers money on clearing up dog fouling and affecting the enjoyment of some visitors to their parks.

1) That's why tax payers money goes towards employing Southwark wardens we see walking 2 by 2, is it not? to patrol these types of anti-social behaviours.

2) I would welcome the next survey by Southwark on banning all lorry drivers in Southwark so visitors to Southwark on their cycles can ride safely, as these lorry drivers in the minority are costing the tax payers money spent on the ambulance service, the fire service the police, not to mention the hospital service also when they accidentally run cyclists over.

3) How about banning people from eating and drinking in the parks, as the tax payers money goes towards employing people to pick up litter, beer cans sweet wrappers crisp wrapper etc.

4) How about creating more Dog Only exercise gated areas (theres one in Nunhead) where families with push chairs and babies, know not to enter if they don't like dogs. This area is well respected by all responsible dog owners, as they are polite enough to wait for other dogs to leave before entering as not all dogs get on and they always pick up their dogs mess apart from the minority.

5) How about creating more "HUMAN FREE AREA ONLY", in Peckham Rye, there is a DOG FREE area for families which works perfectly well for them, though they're still encountering poo of a different kind aren't they? when they find when laying their picnic sheets down to not find dog poo on the grass but bird poo, fox poo etc. What next, survey on ridding all birds in the parks so visitors to the parks can enjoy Southwarks open spaces?

Dogs bring a lot of joy to those majority of responsible dog owners, and also a joy for us when we can watch them RUN FREE (just like toddlers when in a playground with other toddlers) and play with other like minded dogs. We are responsible human beings are we not, as a dog owner if I don't like the look of what I see ahead of me be it a dog or human I steer and walk in the opposite direction.

Southwark needs to promote education to adults and children alike because I have had adults screaming from a distance when I've had my dog walking on a lead beside me, yelling and screaming at me to keep my dog away from her all because she doesn't like dogs, the distance between us was about 20 metres! Needless to say I was shocked and just carried on walking with my dog calmly beside me! I might not like certain characters walking beside me i.e. smokers, what next Southwark carrying out survey to promote banning smoking altogether to make their open spaces an enjoyable smoke free zone??? or survey on preventing groups of teenagers hanging together in public because they intimidate others.

Oh and create more "HUMAN FREE AREAS ONLY" then those stay at home women with their push prams walking side by side next to other mothers with push prams deep in conversation, cannot then complain they have to wipe dog poo off their push prams when they get home.

[JS33]

Question for dog owners, and apologies if this has already been discussed on the thread, but how useful are designated dog area in parks? There is a fairly large fenced area at Myatt's Field specifically for dogs to run off lead and socialise with one another, and I often see people and their animals there. I know they're popular elsewhere, but don't know if people here would go for them. Would such areas reduce the need to walk dogs around the rest of the park?

[LadyDeliah]

The problem with dog exercise areas is that they are unlikely to be big enough for the owner to actually have a walk at the same time.

One of the positive aspects about owning a dog is the increased exercise for the owner when they take the dog for a walk. For some people it's the only exercise they get.

[elloriac]

Hi JS33,

I wouldn't use a dog only area as my dog doesn't like other dogs - not in an aggressive way, but he is a solitary animal and just likes having his walk around the park and sniffing at whatever gets his interest. He wouldn't enjoy being in an enclosed area where he was unable to get away.

Dogs have different characters and different histories that colour their reactions to situations, same as people, we don't all like the same things :-)

(not meaning to sound patronising, but realise it reads that way a bit, sorry!)

[chuff]

Have just looked up current dog restrictions in Southwark and this is what I've found. It shows the areas in each park where dogs are not permitted, permitted on leads and the areas where they can be off lead but where penalties for not picking up poo are in force.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/download/6454/dog_ban_and_dogs_on_leads_byelaws

It seems we already have dog free areas so whatever Southwark are planning, it is likely to be much stricter than this. My feeling is a blanket dog ban in parks is what they want.

[spider69]

Cllr Barber has been very quiet on this matter perhaps he might like to comment.

In the real world all that is required is for dog owners to look out for their dogs and others to accept that dogs can use parks.

Posted by elloriac Yesterday, 10:28PM

Hi JS33,

I wouldn't use a dog only area as my dog doesn't like other dogs - not in an aggressive way, but he is a solitary animal and just likes having his walk around the park and sniffing at whatever gets his interest. He wouldn't enjoy being in an enclosed area where he was unable to get away.

Dogs have different characters and different histories that colour their reactions to situations, same as people, we don't all like the same things :-)

(not meaning to sound patronising, but realise it reads that way a bit, sorry!)

A very sensible comment

[first mate]

Precisely, there are already national laws in place for dog fouling where on the spot fines can be issued, there are already areas of the park where dogs should be kept on lead. If there are not the resources to police and enforce perfectly good existing legislation what is going to change with putting in more, will Southwark invest in more park and dog wardens...? Of course not. Southwark, by the way, axed all their dog wardens.

The only difference with instituting dog control orders is that Southwark then have the power to make whatever changes they like without consultation.....complete ban of dogs.

[chuff]

Somebody mentioned to me yesterday that this was retrospective and already a done deal, I sincerely hope not. Would like the chance to challenge Southwark on this.

I looked for the survey in Dulwich park yesterday but no sign of it, unless they are in the cafe in the dog free zone. Sigh.

edited: typo!

[LadyDeliah]

Still no sign of J Barber?

Could it be that he is in favour of whatever aims the people behind the survey have?

[chuff]

Not a sausage...

[Penguin68]

Loathe as I am to be fair to Mr Barber, I don't think any of Southwark's parks actually fall within his constituency - so he might be seen as commenting on something which is the remit of others. I am sure there would be people happy to point this out if he did comment.

HOWEVER - he might want to consider that some of his constituents do use Southwark parks recreationally, or to walk their dogs, so might have an interest in the outcome of all this.

[LadyDeliah]

Actually, I was being a dumbass. I thought it was him who posted the original questionnaire, but it's clear from his post he's a bit dubious about the fairness of the survey, so appologies to Mr Barber.

[chuff]

Ah fair point!

[chuff]

inside the cafe dog free but outside dogs on leads, that's how i've interpreted the document and what the signs say.

I don't take my dog that way generally in the school holidays or weekends as she wants to play, a lot! it can annoy people so I only go there when I know it's quiet, mostly in the winter.

[chuff]

Mine's only just a year old so even on the lead she will want to roll around with the other dogs tied up. It's best I keep her on the big outside track unless it's quiet.

Agree they should be on leads there. Some run across the grass though from main path. A fence where that strip of grass starts would be helpful.

[first mate]

Elmgrove, from what I have heard the leaflets/survey were being handed out to people. Don't know of any dog owners who it was handed out to.

[davidh]

there are usually more dogs in the park than people. in the winter usually only dog people are there at all. I wonder what input that miserable bully on a bike park warden had into this. there is a man totally out of synch with his "customers".

[keane]

They are on the notice boards at entrance to park.

[mako]

Davidh

There are not normally more dogs in the park than people. In fact i expect there are never more dogs in the park than people.

[Zombiemonkey]

This is worrying... completed the survey and forwarded it to my facebook chums. If we're not careful, we soon will be forced to keep our dogs on the lead everywhere. I am getting so much hostility just for being a dog owner. Even worst, often. I've been shouted at, threatened, verbally insulted, had idiots trying to kick my dogs, idiots slamming the (very heavy)communal door in their face, been spat at, had someone waving a bottle in my face once. Had my puppy attcked by 2 other dogs, and been physically assaulted by a bunch of teenagers "walking" these (no adult in sight) as I tried to push their dogs away, police never came. Pfff...This is what the problem is: the police should deal with irresponsible dog owners, and come when called. As soon as you say it's a dogs issue, they don't bother turning up. Leaving the offenders to roam free and give the rest of us a bad name. Oh! And please, pick up your dog mess! And don't open your front door to leave your dog running free and crapping everywhere! That really isn't helping our cause, there's not such thing as the dog- poo fairy!

[Zombiemonkey]

I totally agree with you on the point of hidden agenda. I did complete the survey, as I want to have my say, but also found it very "directed" and unfit for purpose. Also, I am rather concerned that, as a dog owner using parks everyday, I only found out about this survey...on this forum. Hmmmm....... As for the dog training classes in the park, we did try to set one up in Rye Hill Park, but it was cancelled as it was subject to heavy bureaucracy and also they wanted money for us running it. So clearly, they're not that interested in promoting responsible dog ownership...