Football Focus

[titch juicy]

1-6

bale 2

benzema 2

ronaldo 2

but the best goal of the night was huntelaar's

bale's first was delightful

[Mick Mac]

You didn't get my joke ?

[titch juicy]

it was very poor on my part

[Parkdrive]

Interesting that United think failure to qualify for CL won't financially harm them and that RD used Monaco as an example. Completely diffent situations, and no matter what you might think, not dining at Europes top footballing table will hurt them, both financially and will dent their reputation. And as for it being cheaper to hang on to shrek as it would cost more to replace him, United will be shelling out the best part in ?80 odd million, so RD, you do the maths. I see that wonderful chap Van Pursestrings is being courted by Juve, so glad we got rid of him now. 8 odd seasons we put up with his almost permanent injury and his tantrums. Glad to see after the deafeat in midweek the tantrums have resurfaced. The little boy inside him is saying it's all the other nasty boys fault for taking his space. As for still attracting top names, Millhaven hit the nail on the head with his comments on the Mata transfer.

[red devil]

Ok, let me explain for the mathematically challenged amongst us. I'll take the example of Utd selling Rooney and replacing him with Bayern's Tony Kroos...

If you believe the headline figures, Rooney's current wages are ?250k a week, and there have been quotes in the press that Utd would have to pay Kroos similar, so they cancel each other out. But as I've already said, you have to factor in the additional cost of Rooney's wage increase, which equates to ?11.7m over 4 and a half years.

If Utd had to sell Rooney this summer we would've got ?20m max for him, generous when you consider Chelsea offered ?23m and ?25m last summer, it could even be as low as ?15m because of the fear of losing him for nothing the following summer. So let's split the difference and say ?17.m. Add this to the additional costs of Rooney's wages, and that totals ?29.2m. That is the figure that Utd would have to pay Bayern in order to break even. To prise away a player of his class and age, and from a non selling club like Bayern is highly unlikely for that sort of money.

Again, as I've already said before, you also have to factor in the commercial revenue a player brings to the club, which is hard to quantify. But in the global commercial market it's safe to say that Rooney is worth a hell of a lot more than Kroos is.

I've taken Kroos as an example because he would be one of the 'cheaper' options. Signing a player like Falcao would cost considerably more in both transfer fee and wages.

Which brings me onto the subject of Monaco. Why is Monaco a 'completely different situation'? I cited them because they are a club that aren't in the Champions League, yet still managed to sign top players, one being the most sought after forward at the time, Falcao, as well as others. Somehow I don't think it was the allure of playing in front of 6,000 fans that swung it for them.

Millhaven's post about Chelsea somehow 'gifting' Mata to Utd was too laughable to even warrant a reply, but since you've brought it up, read this article... http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jan/26/chelsea-manchester-united-juan-mata-transfer

What the article doesn't mention is that clubs like Chelsea can no longer rely on their sugar daddies to keep dipping into their bottomless pockets, and they now have to adhere to Financial Fair Play rules. Chelsea can't keep buying ad nauseum like they did before, they now have to sell in order to balance their books...

[????]

hatred of Man U and wishfull thinking is making the irrational even more irrational and some of the rational fairl irrational :)

I am fairly indifferent to Man U generally - but they are possibly the biggest 'brand' *throws up* in global football, and certainly top 3, and a massive business, they are not run by the owner of a chain of Butchers shop anymore...

IMO There is no way will this hit them 'that' badly financially or they'll be in long term decline. I do now think Moyes will go quitely(ish) at the end of the season they need a new broom and a clean break from the Ferguson era, which Moyes, as his annointed one, never was.

[Otta]

United are never going to fall in to a huge decline, they've just got a team that needs rebuilding.

Nice to see SOME of their fans brought down a peg or two and realise that trophies aren't theirs by right, but certainly don't include RD in that group.

My issues with United were more about SAF than anything else.

[red devil]

Otta Wrote:

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> Nice to see SOME of their fans brought down a peg

> or two and realise that trophies aren't theirs by

> right, but certainly don't include RD in that

> group.

I think it's more of a human trait than specific to a particular club's set of fans. If a club such as Norwich had the same success Utd have had, you would still get SOME fans with similar mindsets, goes with the territory I'm afraid. I'm surprised some people give them so much credence, but as Quits said, there's a lot of irrationality around at the moment...

[????]

The irony is that many of us over 40 felt like that about Liverpool once, but that has generally worn off over time

[Mick Mac]

I personally don't have any issues with MU, I think they are easily the most entertaining team in England over the last 20 years. Whilst I didn't support them in the formal sense I couldn't justify favouring any other team over them.

They have been bloody stupid though and are playing so badly I now find myself with no interest in watching them.

Quids - if you are watching for their odds of winning the premiership, I'd do it over 5 years rather than 1.

[StraferJack]

"hatred of Man U and wishfull thinking is making the irrational even more irrational and some of the rational fairl irrational "

apart from PD's usual "jokey banter", is there a lot of Man Utd hate on here?

Who are the irrational exactly, and how are they being irrational?

[Jah Lush]

I don't hate Man Utd my venom is saved for that club down the road. Rooney's contract made perfect sense to me. You might begrudge him it but that is the going rate for a top player these days.

I wish Spurs had given Bale whatever he wanted to stay. We'd probably be ten or 12 points better off if he'd stayed. Unfortunately until we have a stadium that brings in the revenue as big as Old Trafford or the Effeminates we will not be able to compete on the same financial footing as the big boys.

[StraferJack]

I don't hate Utd or begrudge Rooney the money per se

Bale worth a lot more on the pitch over the next 5 years than Rooney

I'm merely vocalising why I think the Rooney signing might be a mistake (even after taking into account RD's articulate posts)

The teams at the top either have ridiculous money thrown at them over specific season(s) or have patiently ground away building up teams from youth/undervalued players

Man Utds problems (and I accept all of the points about their global reach, big business etc etc) include:

Global Reach: This brand penetration has occured in the last 20 years when they have clearly been a dominant force. There is no guarantee that those far flung fans will remain loyal over several turbulent seasons

Ownership: If a new owner to rival the megabucks at City arrived tomorrow GUARANTEEING as much money as any manager could need, they would still be competing with City et al - no guarantee of success there. But as it is they have the over leveraged Glazers. If they do have the will, do they have the means?

Players: Rooney (for next year or two. Maybe). de Gea. Mata. Rvp. These are the only players you can start to build a team around. And I wouldn't trust RVP as far as I could throw him. It's going to take years to forge another squad around them

I'm not saying I 100% agree with all of that - but those are the thoughts that run through my mind. And I accept the counter arguments. But it would be arrogant to sweep aside concerns and say the brand/business will take care of the slack

[red devil]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Man Utds problems (and I accept all of the points

> about their global reach, big business etc etc)

> include:

>

> Global Reach: This brand penetration has occured

> in the last 20 years when they have clearly been a

> dominant force. There is no guarantee that those

> far flung fans will remain loyal over several

> turbulent seasons

I think you're on sticky ground alluding that fans in 'far flung' places are somehow more fickle and transient in their support of a team. If you'd said this might be the case for the next, younger generation of fans deciding which club to support, then I'd be inclined to agree with you more, because wherever they live in the world some new fans will be swayed to favour the teams that are doing well at that present time.

> Ownership: If a new owner to rival the megabucks

> at City arrived tomorrow GUARANTEEING as much

> money as any manager could need, they would still

> be competing with City et al - no guarantee of

> success there. But as it is they have the over

> leveraged Glazers. If they do have the will, do

> they have the means?

Before FFP you would have a point. With FFP it's now all about revenue streams, you can only spend what you earn. A sugar daddy arriving at OT would only clear the debt, nothing more. It's no coincidence that 'old money' clubs like Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool have all been vociferous in their support of FFP and against 'financial doping'. Under FFP a club can only spend what it earns. At Utd, part of those earnings will have to go on to service the debt, but their income has ballooned in comparison. I don't support the Glazers and their business model, but credit has to be given to how much extra revenue they have brought into the club in recent years, a good proportion of which will be made available for transfers this summer.

> Players: Rooney (for next year or two. Maybe). de

> Gea. Mata. Rvp. These are the only players you can

> start to build a team around. And I wouldn't trust

> RVP as far as I could throw him. It's going to

> take years to forge another squad around them

Don't forget Januzaj!

It took Fergie 2 to 3 seasons to build a team around Rooney and Ronaldo, so I would say the same whoever Moyes or A.N Other decides to build the next team around. It can't be done overnight, even if we bought 5 world class players this summer, so put your money away ????... :)

[Parkdrive]

To steal a line from a journo writing in the Mail, United are in a period of transition, they're going from bad to worse.

[Millhaven]

Parkdrive Wrote:

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> To steal a line from a journo writing in the Mail,

> United are in a period of transition, they're

> going from bad to worse.

Arf! Was that Martin Samuels?

[Parkdrive]

An interesting article on Yanited current malaise from Patrick Barclay in last nights Standard

Let Manchester United?s fans take their text from the first decade of Alex Ferguson and Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life.

For at least they are reaping some benefit from Manchester City?s success. But for City?s presence in the Capital One Cup Final, United would be returning from Athens to the prospect of goodness knows what further humiliation.

Due to the Old Trafford derby?s postponement, David Moyes and his players have a month to get some semblance of an act together. So where to start? A desperate bid for Steven Gerrard?

He might be 33. But, if you need a third goal against Olympiakos to stay in the Champions League, Gerrard?s your man. Or would be but for those pettifogging UEFA transfer regulations and the possibility that he?d rather stay at Liverpool, contest titles and play at Europe?s highest level next season.

A huge responsibility, then, falls on United?s equivalent of Gerrard. Clubs of history and character can, as Liverpool proved in the 2004-05 Champions League, bring off remarkable feats in the face of adversity. And so Old Trafford turns to Wayne Rooney for inspiration.

Just six days before they meet City, United will attempt to claw back the two-goal advantage established by the Greeks. And we?ll see what Rooney is made of. We?ll see if the investment of an estimated ?86million in wages to keep him at United was as risky as it looked.

Because ? make no mistake ? if United don?t play in the Champions League next season they are, in effect, being relegated from England?s unofficial top flight, well and truly knocked of prosperity?s perch by ? in all likelihood ? Liverpool. And, despite executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward?s witterings, relegation stings the pocket at any level.

In Liverpool, understandably, Gerrard is considered priceless because of the occasional footballing miracle. Over to you, Wayne.

[Millhaven]

Never really hated Man Utd. Nor Arsenal that much. But I hate with all my heart Liverpool, Spurs, Leeds and in more recent times Barcelona.

Mind you, I once overheard my missus telling her mate that if I was really honest I'd admit to hating anyone we happen to be playing. In a sense this is true of all supporters of all clubs.

I have a spurs supporting mate that hates any team that plays in red. He of course loathes Arsenal as you would expect from any spurs fan but almost equally detests Liverpool, Man Utd, even poor old Charlton gets short shrift.

[red devil]

Obsessed...

http://bigfourza.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/hated-adored-never-ignored1.jpg?w=500

[Parkdrive]

red devil Wrote:

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> Obsessed...

>

> http://bigfourza.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/hated

> -adored-never-ignored1.jpg?w=500

In Uniteds case more like dispossessed

[red devil]

Like I said, obsessed...

[Parkdrive]

My disdain for United started on Boxing day 1968, when the then European cup holders visited Highbury. As I walked to the ground from my cousins place in Caledonian Road, we came across some United fans who were full of what their "mighty" team would do to us that afternoon and predicting silly scores. We beat them 3 nil and it was a wonderful feeling watching their dejected faces walking back towards Kings Cross, a joy to behold. Over the years watching them being relegated was delightful. Then came SAF who took 5 years to sort the rabble out, when they did eventually start to win stuff, suddenly there were "fans" coming out of the woodwork trumpeting loudly how great they were, as they become more successful the arrogance become unbelievable. So now that their star is on the wane and after all the shit they've given to others, it's our turn to laugh at your self made misery. And by the way, I still hate Spurs,and the Chavs more than United, but not by much.

[Parkdrive]

red devil Wrote:

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> Like I said, obsessed...

Hook, line and sinker.

[Millhaven]

Parkdrive Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So where to

> start? A desperate bid for Steven Gerrard?

>

> He might be 33. But, if you need a third goal

> against Olympiakos to stay in the Champions

> League, Gerrard?s your man. Or would be but for

> those pettifogging UEFA transfer regulations and

> the possibility that he?d rather stay at

> Liverpool, contest titles and play at Europe?s

> highest level next season.

> In Liverpool, understandably, Gerrard is

> considered priceless because of the occasional

> footballing miracle. Over to you, Wayne.

You've as much chance of seeing Messi holding up a Sunderland shirt at The Stadium of Light next August. Just the emotional upheaval alone would probably render Gerrard (a player already in the twilight of his powers and career)totally useless. Gerrard would never cross that line to Man Utd anymore than he would to Everton.

[Parkdrive]

I think the point Barclay was making was that he doesn't believe United could ever rely on Rooney in the same way Gerrard has lifted Pool over the years and got stuck in when the the going got tough, despite the sack loads of money they've thrown at Rooney.