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Otta

By Otta
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????

????

Posted
Posted

this is a long C&p but sums up BFS and West Ham very well to me:


Sam Allardyce will return to Upton Park tomorrow and he will, at best, receive a tepid reception. Whether the attending West Ham fans are openly hostile is a different matter, but Allardyce shouldn?t ride into London expecting a hero?s welcome. Reliably, the prelude to this game has featured the usual arguments as to why West Ham supporters owe their former manager more than they?re willing to give and, again predictably, the army of Proper Football Men have all made themselves available to testify on Allardyce?s behalf.


He controlled the club?s decline, he returned them to the Premier League, and he re-stabilised them.


That perspective has always been presented in quite a superficial way. West Ham did bounce back from relegation at the first opportunity and they remain a top-flight side largely because of his contribution. It was success with a small ?s?, a by-the-numbers affair which was worth a handshake and a ?well done? rather than rapturous applause and a standing ovation.


That?s the heart of this issue: the disparity between the affection he felt he was owed and what he was really entitled to is ? and always has been ? very wide.


Allardyce holds his own abilities in extraordinarily high regard and he radiates self-worth. To an extent that?s reasonable, because there are very few British managers who have enjoyed such top-flight longevity. But then that?s also part of the problem. While ego is fine ? and probably a mandatory quality in a successful coach ? he has never been particularly good at recognising his weaknesses or owning his mistakes.


And there were plenty of mistakes at West Ham, both in a footballing sense and also in how he conducted himself. Football supporters are not fools and while some are emotionally volatile, many more understand the game in great depth. Allardyce underestimated that. He repeatedly patronised those fans and, intentionally or otherwise, insulted their intelligence. It was naive; West Ham laboured to promotion from the Championship in 2012 with comfortably the strongest side in the division and in each of the three following seasons, in spite of significant spending, the side suffered through horribly fallow form.


West Ham were sometimes very effective and the list of clubs they beat during that period attests to that, but they were often very poor indeed.


Ultimately, that?s rather incidental. A shortage of entertainment paled in significance to the avoidance of relegation and, given the upcoming Olympic Stadium tenancy and the swelling television contract, survival trumped all other concerns.


But it always seemed as if Allardyce assessed his own contribution in very literal terms and judged his tenure in an overly-binary way. In his mind, he was set a series of objectives, he achieved them, and that meant that nobody was entitled to have any doubts over his management ? to him, the uneasy relationship he had with that fanbase was symptomatic of their narrow perspective.


It?s maybe okay to think that, but it?s something else to express it. Allardyce was publicly contemptuous of those who criticised him and remains so to this day.


?The fans were being brainwashed into thinking that, historically, the club had a particular style of play which was akin to Barcelona, which was potty. I once called the supporters deluded and I stand by that. I don?t know who invented the West Ham way phrase, but it?s a millstone around the club?s neck.?


Management, during difficult times, is about appeasement. Because of the cost of sitting in a Premier League ground in the 21st Century, head-coaches are obliged to show a certain level of contrition when performances are sub-standard. Conversely, by shirking that responsibility, making antagonistic gestures, and insisting that there?s no case to answer, a manager will very quickly drain his supply of goodwill. When a manager shows humility, supporters will typically gravitate towards him. But if he continuously behaves as if he?s beyond reproach, the atmosphere will quickly become very toxic indeed.


Sam Allardyce probably should be more respected for what he did during those four years, but that he is not is almost entirely his own fault. That?s the problem here, that?s the error which so many of these think-pieces make: the lack of love between the two parties is commonly blamed on snobbish native attitudes. Allardyce is characterised as the humble football man who gave his very best performance, only to be booed off the stage by a overly-demanding audience. He was the victim, the humble pragmatist who was unjustly heckled by an elitist crowd.


No, he was an antagonist. West Ham may not have been an easy job between 2011-2014, but he commonly presented his functional performance as an act of super-heroism. In his own mind he was a thrifty magician, holding back the tide of financial disparity and making the most with what little he had. In truth, he was spending eight figures on Andy Carroll and Matt Jarvis and then cupping his hand to the crowd after parking the bus at home against a ten-man Hull City.


It was hard to see the miracle. Had he been more humble during that time and had he recognised his own fallibility, all the irritations felt during his reign would already have melted away and the prevailing attitude would have been to focus on what he did right.


But it won?t be, because he believes that he only did right and that anyone contesting that is beneath his consideration.

red devil

red devil

Posted
Posted

I think that article is spot on, especially this bit...


''It was success with a small ?s?, a by-the-numbers affair which was worth a handshake and a ?well done? rather than rapturous applause and a standing ovation.''


But BFS didn't even warrant that from the EDF Hammers...

????

????

Posted
Posted

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think that article is spot on, especially this

> bit...

>

> ''It was success with a small ?s?, a

> by-the-numbers affair which was worth a handshake

> and a ?well done? rather than rapturous applause

> and a standing ovation.''

>

> But BFS didn't even warrant that from the EDF

> Hammers...


As the article says:


"Sam Allardyce probably should be more respected for what he did during those four years, but that he is not is almost entirely his own fault."

maxxi

maxxi

Posted
Posted

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think that article is spot on, especially this

> bit...

>

> ''It was success with a small ?s?, a

> by-the-numbers affair which was worth a handshake

> and a ?well done? rather than rapturous applause

> and a standing ovation.''

>

> But BFS didn't even warrant that from the EDF

> Hammers...



The success was all at the beginning and without trawling through for hard facts (eesh) I'm sure i said at one point that he deserved a well-done for the promotion - that it was what he was brought in for - and that that was the time he should have been let go. THEN he'd have got a handshake.


He stayed and he was given time and money and even (grudgingly) a second bite after he served up dogshit football and mocked the fans but he couldn't or wouldn't evolve. That handshake was withdrawn a long time before he was kicked out.

red devil

red devil

Posted
Posted

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> red devil Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think that article is spot on, especially

> this

> > bit...

> >

> > ''It was success with a small ?s?, a

> > by-the-numbers affair which was worth a

> handshake

> > and a ?well done? rather than rapturous

> applause

> > and a standing ovation.''

> >

> > But BFS didn't even warrant that from the EDF

> > Hammers...

>

> As the article says:

>

> "Sam Allardyce probably should be more respected

> for what he did during those four years, but that

> he is not is almost entirely his own fault."


I read that as more respected than a handshake/well done, or else why write that in the first place...


ETA. The key word is 'more', which says there is some respect to begin with, as opposed to no respect whatsoever as shown by the EDF Hammers.

Otta

Otta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yeah I read that earlier and thought you'd be gutted Jah. Hopefully he can still make more of a recovery...



On a brighter note for you, that's a massive result for Spurs today, and I just saw this on BBC website.


"Tottenham have now won 17 points from losing positions in the Premier League this season ? the most in the Premier League."

Jah Lush

Jah Lush

Posted
Posted

Yes but a very tough week ahead for Spurs. Two London derbies against West Ham and Arsenal. If we can come away with all three points in both games and Leicester drop points I'll be absolutely elated.


Jimmy Greaves is a fighter. He's overcome more than a few obstacles in the past. Having had a nasty bout of hepatitis in the 60s where some observers, including himself reckoned he lost a yard of pace, "Chopper" Harris and Norman "Bites yer legs" Hunter trying to kick lumps out of him didn't seem to stop his amazing goalscoring feats though, not playing in the World Cup final and of course his well publicised battle with the bottle. He will soldier on right until the bitter end.

Alan Medic

Alan Medic

Posted
Posted
Given his age, Jimmy seems to be in good hands. What's happened to him is one of those things in life. I felt sad about Georgie Best as his death seemed self inflicted. Jimmy seems to be able to accept his predicament without bitterness. It can only help him in the rest of his life.
Alan Medic

Alan Medic

Posted
Posted
Good 'ol LVG. He's doing a Houdini act at OT. Today's match was probably the most satisfying of the season. I don't know if JM has been offered the job next season but just to see Louis get out of his seat and fall down in front of the 4th official makes me want to wish him good luck.
Otta

Otta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

No idea how you can say a team doesn't deserve to be champs because they lost a game. If they finish top after 38 matches then they deserve to be champs because they've got more points than anyone else, simple.


That said, I still want Leicester to do it. Spurs would also be a breath of fresh air, but it's the fact Leicester nearly got relegated last year and their squad cost nowhere near what their rivals have spent. Would just be a wonderful story.

Alan Medic

Alan Medic

Posted
Posted
It's how they lost the game. They don't have the x factor. United should have been there for the taking but 3-2 was closer than they deserved. Spurs and/or Leicester may get the yips but Arsenal haven't shown today they have what it takes to take advantage.
Parkdrive

Parkdrive

Posted
Posted

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Good 'ol LVG. He's doing a Houdini act at OT.

> Today's match was probably the most satisfying of

> the season. I don't know if JM has been offered

> the job next season but just to see Louis get out

> of his seat and fall down in front of the 4th

> official makes me want to wish him good luck.


Anyone who gets credit for falling over at Old Trafford in front of the fourth official deserves to remain as manager for decades.

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