Racist graffiti at The Hamlet, man sought by Police

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Yeah no - you're not going to get a  graphologist and chemist responding to every bit of racist graffiti. Aren't we still about 10,000 front line police officers short?

Edited August 25, 2024 by Dogkennelhillbilly

[Penguin68]

As the man is reported by the police as being sought by the police I suspect they actually are responding to it. And would presumably like evidence they could take to court. 

[Dulwichway]

The Police will probably be snowed under keeping Carnival in check this weekend in trying to keep stabbings and violent crime to a minimum, let's hope all goes well and they can get back to hunting down an old bloke writing offensive stuff on a wall. 

[malumbu]

Wow that's a pessimistic view of a massive festival which most people have a great time.  Borderline casual racism?  Ironic on a thread about racist behaviour.

edited:

Thought I'd better add some context.  Firstly I have made an assumption that you are not from Caribbean or African heritage.  I could be wrong of course. 

Secondly, your comment had little relevance to the thread, which questions why you needed to make it, beyond a conscious or unconscious bias. 

Edited August 25, 2024 by malumbu

[Rockets]

Malumbu, to be fair an accusation of adding comments with little relevance to the thread is a bit rich coming from you! 😉

[Sue]

I really cannot understand why the police have not found this man.

All I can think is that the people who know him don't want to tell the police who he is  because they agree with his racist crap.

Why else would you not? Even if you were his neighbour, presumably you could do it anonymously?

[Rockets]

Probably because, as others have said, racist graffiti is not high on their priority list to devote resources to and they know that posting his picture will get a name in time. They only posted his picture two days ago so I doubt they have made much progress.

Also I am not sure how many people will have seen his picture as the reach of the police website, news outlets and the EDF is quite limited.

 

 

[Dulwichway]

  On 25/08/2024 at 17:02, malumbu said:

 Borderline casual racism?  

Something you seem to be good at?

 

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[Dulwich dweller]

  On 25/08/2024 at 19:24, Sue said:

I really cannot understand why the police have not found this man.

All I can think is that the people who know him don't want to tell the police who he is  because they agree with his racist crap.

Why else would you not? Even if you were his neighbour, presumably you could do it anonymously?

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 Resources/ prioritising? Most of London's OB  will be over in west London for a few days. Also if he's not known to them where do they look? How much manpower can they afford looking for a thick racist that's put up some unsavoury graffiti? It's hard enough getting them to come out when you've been burgled.

  On 25/08/2024 at 19:24, Sue said:

All I can think is that the people who know him don't want to tell the police who he is  because they agree with his racist crap.

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That's quite an assumption. You are assuming those that know him are aware of what he's done. I wouldn't have known about his antics if i didn't use this forum. I'm a long term resident, get about the manor on a regular basis but don't recognise the geezer. Nor has anyone else on here.

[Sue]

  On 25/08/2024 at 23:27, Dulwich dweller said:

 Resources/ prioritising? Most of London's OB  will be over in west London for a few days. Also if he's not known to them where do they look? How much manpower can they afford looking for a thick racist that's put up some unsavoury graffiti? It's hard enough getting them to come out when you've been burgled.

That's quite an assumption. You are assuming those that know him are aware of what he's done. I wouldn't have known about his antics if i didn't use this forum. I'm a long term resident, get about the manor on a regular basis but don't recognise the geezer. Nor has anyone else on here.

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My "assumption" was based on those people having seen the publicity about what he's done.

I thought that was obvious, so apologies if it wasn't.

And the police thought it was serious enough to publicise it via various media outlets.

Clearly it is particularly relevant at the moment because of the recent rioting etc, so I guess they are publicly  hammering home the point that any form of  racism won't be tolerated.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

  On 27/08/2024 at 09:16, Sue said:

My "assumption" was based on those people having seen the publicity about what he's done.

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You and I might be glued to the East Dulwich Forum and the Met Twitter feed, but the vast majority of Londoners and Dulwichites live in blissful ignorance!

As for what the Met and media have been focusing on over the last couple of days, see here: https://news.met.police.uk/news/notting-hill-carnival-update-at-23-00hrs-on-monday-26-august-487306

[Sue]

  On 27/08/2024 at 09:47, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

You and I might be glued to the East Dulwich Forum and the Met Twitter feed, but the vast majority of Londoners and Dulwichites live in blissful ignorance!

As for what the Met and media have been focusing on over the last couple of days, see here: https://news.met.police.uk/news/notting-hill-carnival-update-at-23-00hrs-on-monday-26-august-487306

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Well yes, but I think it was on the BBC and other sites as well. I don't use Twitter/X apart from publicising our gigs. But I take your point.

And also yes, obviously other priorities, but presumably the whole Met workforce was not at Notting Hill!

[alice]

Putting your Notting Hill crime stat in perspective DKB. There’s an average of about 20 violent crimes a month in East Dulwich with a population of 12,000.  If our crime rate  here in East Dulwich  was extrapolated to Notting Hill There would’ve been 20,000 violent crimes in a month which roughly works out at 6600 in the 3 days of carnival. 
I am happy to be made aware of any mathematical flaws in my calculations

Edited August 27, 2024 by alice

[Gloves]

  On 25/08/2024 at 17:02, malumbu said:

Wow that's a pessimistic view of a massive festival which most people have a great time.  Borderline casual racism?  Ironic on a thread about racist behaviour.

edited:

Thought I'd better add some context.  Firstly I have made an assumption that you are not from Caribbean or African heritage.  I could be wrong of course. 

Secondly, your comment had little relevance to the thread, which questions why you needed to make it, beyond a conscious or unconscious bias. 

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Borderline <removed>. 

Edited August 27, 2024 by Administrator
Removed profanity - warning given

[David Peckham]

  On 27/08/2024 at 10:13, alice said:

Putting your Notting Hill crime stat in perspective DKB. There’s an average of about 20 violent crimes a month in East Dulwich with a population of 12,000.  If our crime rate  here in East Dulwich  was extrapolated to Notting Hill There would’ve been 20,000 violent crimes in a month which roughly works out at 6600 in the 3 days of carnival. 
I am happy to be made aware of any mathematical flaws in my calculations

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Firstly, it looks like you're comparing arrest figures in Notting Hill with reported crimes in SE22. The Met would love a clean up rate like that.

Secondly, you seem to have multiplied East Dulwich's population by a factor of 1000 to get your 20,000 violent crimes in a month. Were there really 12 million people in Notting Hill this weekend? The whole of Greater London and a decent chunk of the Home Counties? On any one day?

Thirdly, your final number of 20,000 (!) per month. You've taken 33 per cent of that. Why? Three days of August is around 10%.

 

[Penguin68]

2 million people are reported as attending this 2 day event, so probably 1 million a day including Notting Hill residents. Currently 8 stabbings and 334 arrests are being reported over the two days. The run rate for a population of 20,000 at that rate would be 7 arrests a day and no stabbings (less than 0.5) over the 2 days. The police presence to make those arrests in ED over 2 days is negligible, and not  the thousands for the Carnival. So probably in fact no arrests either. 

Edited August 28, 2024 by Penguin68

[Jules-and-Boo]

are you saying that crime is scalable and directly related to the number of people? and not the actual people making up the number?

That would mean flat rate crime across the world.

 

there are so many other factors - it's silly to not acknowledge these.

 

[alice]

Okay, I take that DP
Here’s my response:

- there’s no information about reported crime versus arrest rates at Notting Hill

- I should’ve multiplied it by 100 rather than 1000 ( ED 12,000 Notting Hill Carnival 1200000 ) apologies 

- I’m now limiting my comments to sex crimes and violent crimes 17 in Notting Hill  in three days

- In ED, there were 20 sex crimes and violent crimes in a month. (Average)

- if I’m multiply that by 100 that should give me how many such crimes amongst 1.2 million people = 20X100 =2000 I’m now dividing that by 10 to give a three day total for Notting Hill Carnival to have crime at the same level of East Dulwich; so there should be 200 reported sex and violent crimes at the Notting Hill carnival but I  do not have the statistics for that. There were 17 arrests for sex crimes and violent crimes.  
Yes, the gap between reported and arrest is a massive problem especially in sex crimes. 
 

Edited August 27, 2024 by alice
Adding not

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

The Met Police numbers are for offences in relation to which people were arrested on Monday at or somehow in connection with Carnival. It's not a number of how many offences were investigated, reported or actually took place.

Crime statistics are legendarily difficult to compare due to the different ways they are recorded and calculated.

But in any case it seems fair to say the Met has been a bit bloody busy over the long weekend...

  On 27/08/2024 at 12:38, alice said:

I’m now dividing that by 10 to give a three day total for Notting Hill Carnival to have crime at the same level of East Dulwich; so there should be 200 reported sex and violent crimes at the Notting Hill carnival but I have the statistics for that. There were 17 arrests for sex crimes and violent crimes.  

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[Rockets]

It's not often that I feel compelled to come to DKHB's defence but there is a first time for everything...;-)

And I cannot believe we are now arguing over whether Carnival or East Dulwich has a higher crime rate. And I am no Rachel Aldred but it seems comparing crime over a two day event where people go to party with crime over a month in East Dulwich isn't giving a true picture on the crime levels - the modelling needs to include some sort of adjustment to per day or per month! 😉 

DKHB has shared the numbers for one day of Carnival not the total for the duration of the event (there were 334 arrests and 8 stabbings) and I think what concerned the Police this year was that the family day was marred by violence and stabbings (one that left one woman with life threatening injuries) and anyone who has ever gone to Carnival (and that includes me) knows that if you want to avoid the nasty folks who go there to cause trouble then it's best to go on the family day.

The police deployed 7,000 officers to police the event over the weekend and I think the number who attend is nearer 1 million than two million. Unfortunately violence and crime has always been part and parcel of any event that attracts large numbers of people (I remember the risk from attending the dodgems that would arrive every bank holiday at the local park as a kid) and Carnival is no exception, in fact the police say it is one of the most taxing events for them because of the high number of people crammed into a small space (there have been repeated calls to move it to Hyde Park and if you remember a few years ago they made it a circular route as it was becoming dangerous)  - in the 90s and early 2000s the risk was from "steaming", now, unfortunately it is a focal point for gangs many of whom no doubt go in search of a good time but come across other gangs doing the same and my experience has always been that if you are sensible and keep your whit's about you and your eyes open to what is going on around you - you can have a brilliant time.

 

None of that is casual racism it's pragmatism.

For the police Carnival is a massive focal point and it drains resources from across London and they have to prioritise accordingly.

 

 

[alice]

A long convoluted response To what I still consider a very interesting comparison of data. You clearly have views which you find confirmed in the information that you choose to share.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

You've compared "offences in relation to which arrests were made" to "offences". Those are two totally different things.

  On 27/08/2024 at 12:38, alice said:

- I’m now limiting my comments to sex crimes and violent crimes 17 in Notting Hill  in three days.

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Sorry - just reread this.  Presumably you got to 17 by adding the "8 x sexual offences" to "9 x violence with injury" offences...?

The Met alleges a total of 69 sexual and violent offences in relation to which arrests were made (37 x assault on an emergency worker, 8 x sexual offences, 9 x violence with injury, 15 x other violence). And that wasn't for the whole 3 days, but only Monday 26 Aug 2024 up to 2300.

https://news.met.police.uk/news/notting-hill-carnival-update-at-23-00hrs-on-monday-26-august-487306

[malumbu]

Spoke to a copper today, the other boroughs offer a little support but not a lot, much of the police numbers are overtime which is as he said double bubble.  But a fine bit of casual racism from said copper, he didn't want to volunteer as he didn't want to be stabbed.

Hopefully most of these stereotypical views have now been kicked out of the Met.  Totally irreverent to the thread of course.  Worked on and off with the Met for a long time and generally seen things improve addressing institutional racism. 

A general request to cut the personal comments, bemused to have the T word used against me but a version of the C word is getting a bit silly.  I'll leave that there.

[Dulwich dweller]

  On 27/08/2024 at 09:47, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

You and I might be glued to the East Dulwich Forum and the Met Twitter feed, but the vast majority of Londoners and Dulwichites live in blissful ignorance!

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I'm not and yes i know they are.

 

  On 27/08/2024 at 09:47, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

As for what the Met and media have been focusing on over the last couple of days,

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I'm also aware of that. I mentioned the carnival in my post

[Sue]

  On 27/08/2024 at 21:37, malumbu said:

A general request to cut the personal comments, bemused to have the T word used against me but a version of the C word is getting a bit silly.  I'll leave that there.

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Was that in the post removed by admin?