Cyclists &Pavements

[omz]

Riding in london is the last and greatest bastion for lawlessness..

Preferably fixed but Single speed accepted....no rules

If you cant deal with it..join in

[LadyDeliah]

Roads were not designed with cyclists in mind and as a consequence are often very dangerous to cycle on.

The only time I cycle on the pavement is where the available road space is so dangerous I'm not prepared to risk my life by staying on the road.

There needs to be a re-think of how our public spaces, including roads and pavements are shared because cycling is set to continue to increase in popularity and the needs of all users need to be accommodated in ways that make travelling safer for everyone.

[matryx]

It's been a while since I've checked but I thought that particular stretch was shared use on the park-side. Signage on the pavement close to the traffic lights (toucan crossing? It's bike-friendly anyway) next to Friern Road further up I think indicates the end of a shared use. I'll have to double check though.

However, it's completely fine to cycle through the park on that large diagonal path, and the spot you just mentioned leads right into it. It sounds like the correct place for a considerate cyclist to enter the park to use this route.

Unless you mean the clock-house side of the road which makes no sense and in that case I agree with you, the cyclists should use the road.

Callie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> StraferJack Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > 12 years in east dulwich and I reckon I have had

> a

> > cyclist pass me on pavement once

> >

> > Is this really a problem?

>

> Yes it's a huge problem, especially on the stretch

> of pavement around The Clockhouse which I pass

> every day in both directions & most days,

> sometimes twice a day adult cyclists will speed

> round that corner on the pavement of Barry Rd &

> Peckham Rye & they seem to think it is normal to

> do so. I have been meaning for a long time to

> inform James Barber of this to see if there's

> anything at all that can be done about this.

[ruffers]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Roads were not designed with cyclists in mind and

> as a consequence are often very dangerous to cycle

> on.

>

> The only time I cycle on the pavement is where the

> available road space is so dangerous I'm not

> prepared to risk my life by staying on the road.

>

> There needs to be a re-think of how our public

> spaces, including roads and pavements are shared

> because cycling is set to continue to increase in

> popularity and the needs of all users need to be

> accommodated in ways that make travelling safer

> for everyone.

I agree with you in general but when on the pavement you should get off your bike and push it. You are now a pedestrian.

[LadyNorwood]

I've been knocked down by a cyclist who was going the wrong way down a one way street - I was thrown into the path of oncoming traffic but luckily was rescued by three very kind gentlemen.... Every morning I take my life in my hands stepping onto the pavement outside my house - I've been sworn at, spat at and threatened with violence all by charming cyclists. "It's too dangerous to cycle on the road" - my reply "It's dangerous to drive around Hyde Park Corner but I don't drive on the pavement; if you aren't competent enough to cycle on the roads, then you shouldn't be cycling".... Don't get me started on cyclists at night, on the pavement, no lights, dressed all in black, riding at the speed of sound.... Seems to me that since the Olympics everyone with a bike thinks they're Pendleton or Wiggins......

[Sue]

I can understand cyclists wanting to cycle on the pavement where there is very heavy traffic or for some other reason they feel at risk (though surely they should be pushing their bikes not cycling) but I too have been almost knocked over by cyclists going at speed along the pavement who don't even bother to make their presence behind me known by ringing their bell, or who suddenly come round a corner.

And yes, those who cycle in dark clothing at night with no lights - do they have a death wish?

[LadyDeliah]

LadyNorwood Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

... "It's too dangerous to cycle

> on the road" - my reply "It's dangerous to drive

> around Hyde Park Corner but I don't drive on the

> pavement; if you aren't competent enough to cycle

> on the roads, then you shouldn't be cycling"....

Don't think the danger to cyclists is due to incompetence on their part. It's due to having to share space with big dangerous pieces of metal.

Another cyclist killed today by a lorry on a London road:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23576109

That's why I cycle on the pavement in places where the roads are too dangerous. I want to get back home to my kids in one piece.

[Nigello]

LadyDeliah,

Rules are not pick and mix, you know. Just do the right thing and don't put anyone else in danger. Your argument is so hypocritical - I don't want to be run over so I'll cycle on the pavement (where I might well knock someone over).

[LadyDeliah]

From another report of the same incident:

"Last month emergency doctors who work on the air ambulance called for urgent road safety measures after three cyclists were killed in three weeks in London.

The air ambulance, which flies a surgeon and paramedic straight to crash scenes, has been called to more than 30 critical incidents involving cyclists this year."

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-killed-in-crash-with-lorry-on-archway-road-8746311.html

[spider69]

Out of interest do you have insurance to cover any injury you might cause to pedestrians should you hit them?

[LadyDeliah]

The roads are not designed for cyclists. They put us in massive danger compared to pedestrians sharing space with cyclists.

How many times do you think the air ambulance has been called out to attend to people who have been hit by cyclists? I'd bet there have been none, ever, but I'd be happy to let you prove me wrong.

Cycling on pavements poses some risk to pedestrians, but cycling on dangerous roads poses enormous and often fatal risks to cyclists.

If you don't want me on the pavement, improve the safety of roads for cyclists and I'd be happy to always cycle on the road. Until then, I make no excuses and will continue to cycle on pavements to avoid death or serious injury.

No, I don't have insurance. I have never hit a pedestrian in 25 years of cycling. Do any of you have insurance in place to cover injuries you may cause from walking out in front of a cyclist without looking, or from accidently causing injury from a stray football, cricket ball or excitable dog? I doubt it.

It would be open to injured pedestrians or others to make a claim in the courts against the person who injured them in all of these circumstances.

By the way, the reason cars, lorries etc have compulsory insurance is because they amount of damage they can cause would be far in excess of the means of most ordinary people to cover without insurance. That does not apply to cyclists.

[Nigello]

Lady D,

You are really on a sticky wicket here. By all means, come onto the pavement with your bike, but push it. That's the fair, social and reasonable solution. Do the right thing, and stop thinking that you won't knock anyone down just because you haven't done so yet in XX years.

['bout now]

omz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Riding in london is the last and greatest bastion

> for lawlessness..

> Preferably fixed but Single speed accepted....no

> rules

> If you cant deal with it..join in

Why? I ride a fixed bike, have done for 10 years, I can adhere to the law and respect road users and pedestrians. What makes you so special?

[spider69]

Lady deliah and omz really know how to advance the cause for cyclists.

I will do what ever i want. S.d the rest of you

[jimbo1964]

Should this be in Lounge as it's just idle chatter and not Dulwich specific?

[taper]

As a cyclist, pedestrian, runner and dog walker, never had a problem with people cycling on the pavement. Annoying, occasionally, but rarely reckless in my experience. Pedestrians though are an absolute menace to cyclists!

Cycling in parks is a bigger issue. Not that people do it, but that often they do so recklessly. To bring it back to local relevance, the weekend warriors that use Dulwich Park as a racetrack are the worst. But also people heading through Surrey Canal and Burgess Parks as if the paths through there are roads. I also saw a cyclist ringing his bell at two women pushing buggies along the path that heads to Barry Road from the Nunhead corner of Peckham Rye, forcing them to go onto the grass. Poor show.

The basic rule of thumb is that cyclists should give way to pedestrians and ride cautiously when they're using the same strech of road or path.

[taper]

In those cases, cyclists are a menace to pedestrians.

But I would say around 50% of the situations where I'm in some sort danger on the road are when pedestrians head off the pavement into the road without looking for cyclists. The I-Zombie is the biggest menace.

[Zebedee Tring]

Oh, so it's pedestrians' responsibility to improve road safety for cyclists, while cyclists carry on riding on pavements, is it? And it's our fault then if cyclists hit us? A funny kind of logic.

Such as the pedestrians who are inconsiderate enough to dare to cross at a crossing and who then complain when a cyclist nearly knocks them over?

[LadyDeliah]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the safety of roads for cyclists and I'd be happy

> to always cycle on the road >

>

> Oh, so it's pedestrians' responsibility to improve

> road safety for cyclists, while cyclists carry on

> riding on pavements, is it? And it's our fault

> then if cyclists hit us? A funny kind of logic.

This was aimed at anyone who campaigns or complains against cyclists on pavements and anyone else who is concerned about road safety.

It's about pushing for positive change, rather than wheeling out the same old circular arguments to no effect.

[Zebedee Tring]

I'm all for positive change. In the meantime, unless there is some change, please don't cycle on the pavement.

[reeko]

I have to say I agree with taper.

To preface, i am a responsible cyclist. I do not cycle on pavements - they are for pedestrians. On my daily cycle route there is only one light I jump. I do this routinely for my own safety. Two cyclists obeying the highway code here have been killed and the junction has not been changed to reflect this.

Cyclists face a number of hazards on every journey. When I first started cycling the biggest and most dangerous hazard was undoubtedly car drivers being oblivious to your presence. I once had a car stop at a junction. I was in the cycle lane on the inside of it, and a rear passenger opened their door straight onto my path. I was saved only by my newly relaced brake pads. As there has been an increase in the number of cyclists, my perception is that drivers have become more aware and I have experienced less of this type of hazard.

In the same time frame the prevalance of personal devices has meant that pedestrians are now a much greater hazard. At least once a week a pedestrian with an I-Pod or similar steps in my path without looking. So far no direct hits, but it is only a matter of time.

My bright idea is that police PCSOs ets should be able to fine cyclists, driver and pedestrians displaying bad behaviour and use that fine to reward cyclists drivers and pedestrians displaying good behaviour. So make the boy racers give their ?20 fine directly into the paws of those cyclists who have obeyed the lights. Punishing bad and rewarding good behaviour would be really effective at improving overall behaviour and would stop councils/ police using fines as a cash cow.

[lane lover]

taper Wrote: "Cycling in parks is a bigger issue ... To bring it back to local relevance, the weekend warriors that use Dulwich Park as a racetrack are the worst."

Dulwich park is to be shared by all. There are a number of parks in London that ban bicycles, and we are lucky to have a park that allows cyclists a safe environment away from traffic. Clearly some are going to cycle faster than others - however I have never had an issue with cyclists in Dulwich Park.

I have had more close encounters with the numerous buggies on LL than I ever have with cyclists in ED.

[PeterSeychelles]

There are people (whether cyclists, pedestrians, or motorists) that do not comply with the laws that apply to them. These people are annoying to everyone else and are sometimes dangerous.

Cyclists, pedestrians and motorists are, as a group, no more careless, malign or thoughtless than each other. Generalisations are a bit pointless.

[taper]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the safety of roads for cyclists and I'd be happy

> to always cycle on the road >

>

> Oh, so it's pedestrians' responsibility to improve

> road safety for cyclists, while cyclists carry on

> riding on pavements, is it? And it's our fault

> then if cyclists hit us? A funny kind of logic.

>

> sort danger on the road are when pedestrians head

> off the pavement into the road without looking for

> cyclists >

>

> Such as the pedestrians who are inconsiderate

> enough to dare to cross at a crossing and who then

> complain when a cyclist nearly knocks them over?

No. I'm talking about your cotton-clad I-Zombie. They should pay Road Tax. And take a test.

[LadyDeliah]

I'm sorry Zebedee, I will continue to use the pavement, (giving way to pedestrians at all times) on stretches of road that are very dangerous because as far as I am concerned, getting home alive or without major injury, takes priority over your annoyance.