Toddler Bedtime Disaster

[souvlaki]

Dear Forumites.. I am struggling! My 2.5 year old is driving me mad at bedtime! There have been a fair amount of changes in her life in the last few months (new house, bed instead of cot and finding out that I am pregnant with number 2 and temporarily moving in with in-laws while we get some works done in the new place!). Still, the routine hasn't changed (other than reducing or droppoing nap depending on day). She screams she doesnt want a bath, then screams she doesnt want to come out. She screams if I try and read a book, then screams if I dont... Her father isnt allowed to do bedtime, according to her, so its all on me. She then either screams, grizzles or plays, but will not settle, however calm and understanding I am (which is less so in the last few days, as I am knachered!).

I dont know how to deal with her at the moment. Any suggestions?! Treats dont seem to work at the moment.

[Ole]

Gosh, poor you, I can't offer much advice that I am sure you have already thought of except sympathy and that it will pass and to not give in to 'only mummy' doing the bedtime routine as I am sure you'd happily hand over to your partner (or in laws!). We sometimes get that 'daddy read me a book not mummy' or vice versa depending on the flavour of the day, but we always stick to our guns and tell little Ole that he does not get to choose. I'd say gentle firmness and consistency are the way forward, and letting her have a little bit of control over the situation, for example when you tell her it is bathtime perhaps ask her if she'd like to have a bath (and letting her go without one if she says no?), or letting her choose pyjamas, or bedtime story? She might be trying to claim a tiny bit of control by being contrary?

[Fuschia]

Does she nap?

I would say cut the nap or reduce it, never let her sleep after 3pm, run her around a bit outside in the afternoon, dinner very early, skip the bath and into bed by 6

[Fuschia]

Sounds to me either she needs to drop her nap now, or if she has already, she is massively over tired by bed time

[souvlaki]

Hm, you are probably right regarding tiredness. We have dropped the nap for most days - she sometimes naps for 30 min at the childminders if very tired. Problem with early bedtime, is that I dont pick her up till 5.45. Whenever I try early bedtimes on weekends she still somehow manages to push the routine to normal time. IOle- it probably is jsut a phase. I hope so anyway. We do give concessions like chosing story, pyjamas etc, but I think she has been getting her way a bit too much lately (guilt for not being at home, new baby coming etc!)

Thanks for the advice! think we need to be firmer...

[womanofdulwich]

i think you need to be out at bedtime for a few nights!!

[oimissus]

I would get tough but I have zero tolerance for arsing about at bedtime, I'm bloody knackered by then. If she plays up then it's straight to be with no stories. If she's screaming because she's cross then it won't kill her to scream for a bit. Dad does it sometimes (I'd go out for that, so there's no other option). It probably is just a phase - we've had a few over the years, lasting a week or so, but it's so wearying when it's going on.

Oh - and she might be teething. Miss Oi teethed almost up to when she was 3, which took me by surprise.

[mima08]

A long build up works well for us: so we start talking about 1/2 hr before bathtime that it's soon time for bath, then stories etc. effectively spelling out the routine and repeating this every 5-10 min. My 2.5 yr old is much more amendable to go along with things when I use this approach. It's very repetitive but works more often than not... good luck! mx

[souvlaki]

I used to have zero tolerance, but then I got pregnant... I will try it over the next few nights and see what happens. I will still have to do bedtime though, as hubby is at the house doing the works most evenings! It might be a bit more than a phase now, cos its been going for a few months! Lets blame the terrible twos?!

[srisky]

Do you perhaps give her too many options? This may be overwhelming when tired and may add to your (and her) woes. Maybe instead of asking her to choose her pyjamas out of however many she has, pick out 2 sets yourself and ask her which one she would like to wear;do the same for books.

I'm not saying this will solve the problem but may help a little. I usually find giving them limited options in a variety of situations makes both parent and toddler feel like they have some control, e.g.:

- 'would you like to wear this pair of shorts or this pair of leggings?' (rather than 'what would you like to wear?' and they end up choosing a woolly jumper for 30deg weather);

- or 'do you want pasta or rice for supper?' (rather than 'what would like for supper?' and being met with the response 'chips'...cue tantrums and battle of wills!).

Mind you, it doesn't always work!

Apologies if you are doing this already or I am stating the obvious! I hope you get to the bottom of it soon.

[lenster]

Second the two options method. Whenever mini lenster is overtired or going through a delightful phase I only ever give an either or choice and *most* of the time it works. The last bathtime one was "do you want to get in before or after your toys?". Hope it improves for you!

[souvlaki]

Two option method is already in place, though she now usually says; 'none of them - I dont want anything!'. I also have been doing the build up thing - so much so, that she now tells me the sequence herself! Then just before we are about ton head upstairs she starts screaming that she doesnt want to do bath, bed etc. Argghhh. I think we are all just tired and want to get back to our own home.

I think being firmer for a few nights might work, but she just seems to be in a bit of a tantrum stage, whatever the time of day.

:(

[Ole]

I'd suggest then when she starts with the screaming 'I don't want to have a bath', you say 'ok, you can go straight to bed then', and be firm about it, you might get even more screaming to start with on the first night but she might think twice about kicking a fuss the following night.....sometimes zero tolerance is the only option left although I admit to be the first one to give in after a long day at work

[alieh]

This happens to us when we miss the window and put ours to bed too late. Especially during a nap dropping phase, very early bedtimes were the only thing that saved us. If they're not catching up on the lost nap by sleeping a bit later in the morning (ha ha - this never happens in my house) then an early bedtime might really help.

I had the most expedited bedtime routine ever around this age with my older son when he was in the process of dropping his nap - I would pick him up at the childminder at 5:45 and we would have lights out by 6:30! We showered him with us in the morning instead of bath at night, so just did quick wash at the sink, two stories, lights out.

If it even dragged to just 6:45 or 7:00 it would descend into irrational tantrums and screaming for ages.

Not sure if that kind of expedited schedule could work for you but may be worth a try!

[apenn]

I remember when mine was about that age. We had moved, I was heavily pregnant, we were potty training, and my parents were visiting. My son was not generally a tantrum thrower in his Twos, but at that time we had a situation that very much reminds me of your post - although not around bedtime. This was usually around breakfast time. He wanted porridge. I would make it, he would scream. He didn't want porridge. I would take it away - he would scream. On and on it went. I couldn't figure out what on earth to do and it drove me potty. The thing is, I'm pretty sure he didn't know what he wanted either and it had nothing to do with porridge or breakfast in general. I think it was just a lot of emotion that he couldn't express. It was really, really difficult at the time and I wish I had a good answer for you, but sometime you just have to let things ride out and cope the best you can. Looking back, there was about a 4 month period of craziness, but thankfully things did normalise and that behaviour just seemed to resolve itself. At least, I can't think of anything magical I did to make it stop! Good luck and hope it eases up soon.

-A

[Fuschia]

Could the minder even put her into pyjamas so straight to bed the moment you get home?

[Saffron]

souvlaki Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Two option method is already in place, though she

> now usually says; 'none of them - I dont want

> anything!'. I also have been doing the build up

> thing - so much so, that she now tells me the

> sequence herself! Then just before we are about

> ton head upstairs she starts screaming that she

> doesnt want to do bath, bed etc. Argghhh. I think

> we are all just tired and want to get back to our

> own home.

>

> I think being firmer for a few nights might work,

> but she just seems to be in a bit of a tantrum

> stage, whatever the time of day.

>

> :(

I can totally understand everything you've written b/c my LO is just the same. Earlier bedtime didn't work, neither did dropping naps (gutted, as these seem brilliant for everyone else, arrrrgh!).

Needless to say, some children really have trouble transitioning from one activity to another, and it's worse not only when they're tired but also seems to become magnified during periods of developmental leaps.

For us, too firm an approach leads to supernova style breakdowns b/c it doesn't match my general parenting approach with her, and she immediately senses that I'm stressing out. Now when she doesn't want a bath, I offer her the option of a shower or a wash in the sink. She often likes a wash a sink, and this seems to be an issue of control. She can run the water and wash herself (sort of, but it's good enough most of the time). Is there a way you can give your LO more control (or the illusion of control) over the bedtime routine?

I like the idea of the childminder having her in pjs early. Then even if she doesn't go to bed straight away, at least it's taken some of the hassle out for you.

Sometimes children seem to test their parents most just before they make a developmental leap towards more independence (particularly true for 2-4 years old). That extra bit of love and attention she may be craving at bedtime could be just the thing to help her leap forward with confidence. xx

[canela]

I agree - you need to be out for bedtime for a night and go have a cup of tea/glass of wine instead! If you are not there, she will not be able to have you at bedtime - full stop.

Sounds to me like the whole situation of living somewhere else, new pregnancy etc is getting everyone stressed out - as is to be completely expected! - and kids always pick up on that. How long are you going to be there? If it's not that much longer, I would just look for a way to defuse the situation and not worry too much about it. Perhaps even try a whole different bedtime thing whilst you are away from home. Something fun? Don't worry about the bath every night? Then once you are home you can do it all properly again.

[jennyh]

Search my previous posts as I had exactly the same thing and still do to some extent. My daughter is real fight or flight, she either goes nuts and screams at everything or ahe messes around being silly and playing up for hours after bedtime, its so hard.

I'm pregnant too so really do appreciate how it changes your tolerance and ability to cope. It's incredibly stressful having a difficult bedtime. I spoke to a sleep expert who had some interesting insight, namely to do with not entertaining any conversation surrounding the things that cause most problems. My daughter hates bed and says 'no bed' all day regardless or any mention of bedtime! I was trying to reason with her or explain bed to her in the hope of assessing the issue but I was quickly reminded that by acknowledging it I am making it a problem and assigning it as a sort of 'personality issue'. This is my child, we know her problem is bed, they pick it up as an issue and it becomes them to some extent. So one piece of advice was to not entertain any discussion surrounding the bad bedtime behaviour. Try to keep your cool which is virtually impossible but again is important - any attention at this age is good, whether you are angry or happy, they get what they want by keeping you on your toes. Be boring, be stern and be consistent.

I absolutely understand and struggle most days but feel a tiny bit more equipped, if you are local to east Dulwich I would happily meet for a coffee on a thurs or fri to share some stories and possible suggestions...the only thing is that it's advised you shouldn't discuss any issues in front of the toddler which makes it a bit trickier!!

[souvlaki]

Thank you all for the advice. Last night was still a battle, though we managed to get past bath and teeth brushing without any drama. Bedtime itself was dramatic, but I eventually left and she settled herself in less than a minute, so I think she is testing me a little and isn't really upset. In fact when I asked her not to cry cos I was there and it was all ok she said; 'But I want to cry, mummy'. What can you say to that?!

Anyway, I shall be even firmer tonight and see what happens. Jennyh, thanks for advice. I like the idea of not drawing too much attention to her evening behaviour (we have been talking about it the next day!).

[JBoylen]

I have been following this because my 2 year old is the same way lately though we have not had any big changes in our house. I put it down to a growth spurt and testing limits. ??

It was a good month before she started settling down easier - last two nights at least. Sometimes she needs a firm explanation as to what is happening even if we keep the same routine and remind her what is coming next. We say nicely and quietly and firmly that it's sleepy time, close your eyes and go to sleep. Somehow, for now, that is working.

Good luck, it is far from easy knowing your night will end up in a battle. Sometimes when I take a deep breathe and try to visualise and think about how it will all go nice and smoothly, and actually take on that thinking fully, it seems to translate to her.