Recently moved into area, suffering with plane noise, need advice

[BrendanC]

Hi all,

First post here, so please be gentle...

I recently moved into the area (actually SE15 but on the border with East Dulwich) after having visited it quite a few times and loving it. So, imagine my shock/horror when, after moving in, I realised I am, quite literally, directly below the approach path for the southern runway at Heathrow. I can watch them on Flight Radar like laser-guided missiles going right over us, every time. I had absolutely no inkling of this despite walking around the area quite a lot.

The planes go overhead every 90 seconds, alternating at 3pm with the northern runway (one week it's the south in the morning and north in the evening, then they swap over the next week), but even when the north runway is being used, the sound is bothersome to me. It's a constant low growl, becoming louder, then a whine, then the growl tails off, and repeats, from 6am to 11pm. It's like being under a constant thunderstorm. 

I've read up about how this is when there's a westerly wind (which is 70% of the time), and we recently had a few easterly days in which it was gloriously quiet because arrivals go over Windsor instead, but I found them difficult to enjoy because I knew the planes would come again.

I've spoken to neighbours and they either say they never noticed, or they got used to it. However I'm a month in, and if anything it's becoming worse. I just cannot tune them out. I can't sit out, or have the windows open. I've actually spoken to my GP about it and am on anti-anxiety medication. I've invested everything I have in the house and cannot afford to simply move again.

So, this is my question: has anyone here been through this and come out the other end OK? As in, had a real problem with the repetitive, relentless noise, but found a way to deal with it? Because I know this is all down to me and how I react to it but right now, I'm suffering quite badly and need to know it's possible to get through it.

Please, even if you mean well, don't say 'you just get used to it' or 'I don't notice it'. I need to hear from people who found it a real problem, and how they managed to overcome it because right now, I don't see how I'm going to 'get used' to this. Very happy if anyone wants to private message me about it rather than share their story in public.

Thanks, Brendan

Edited Sunday at 17:06 by BrendanC

[Pugwash]

Having lived in ED all my life, I agree that plane noise has increased but I only register it when it is particularly noisy (when normal road traffic is less) , I sit out in the garden during good weather, have friends/family around who do not live in London, Yes at times it is annoying but so is reviving cars/bikes , emergency vehicles, loud car music    all which is more noticeable as live on a bus route. 

[ArchieCarlos]

I moved in the area in 2012 and found the plane noise very annoying. I would be woken up most mornings by the sound of the first planes coming in from Asia around 4:30am. I became quite anxious, as the harder I would try to go to sleep and to ignore the plane noise, the more awake I would become. I remember trying to get back to sleep after a plane passed, getting almost there and then feeling defeated as I could hear the very faint whine of the next plane approaching.
 

I’m pleased to say that I’m not bothered anymore, although I did notice how lovely and quiet the skies were during COVID lockdowns.

Some advice I can share which may or may not work for you:

- it’s a psychological battle with yourself. You will get used to it eventually but it’s not easy, as you can get into a vicious circle of anxiety quit easily. Anything you can do to get you on a virtuous circle of relaxation will help you assuage the fear, which will reduce the anxiety, which means you’re less likely to wake up / be alerted, and so on

- For a while, Iused ear plugs as a cheap and quick way to eliminate the problem. The Moldex Spark are my favourite. I don’t need them any more, but knowing I have them in my bedside table is now sufficient for me to be relaxed and sleep through any noise. I now take them everywhere with me, for example on the plane or in a hotel, as they give me peace of mind that if there’s a crying baby during a long flight or a noisy neighbour, I will have a solution. The peace of mind is the crucial point to avoid spiralling towards anxiety.

- we had our crappy old windows changed for high quality double glazing and it massively reduced all the noises inside the house, including airplane noise.

- we also put in honeycomb blinds (like Luxaflex Duette), which have the dual benefit of adding both temperature and sound insulation to your windows. They also super easy to pull up and down with the finger pull and no wires.

I hope this helps. 

[BrendanC]

Thank you so much, This really does help.

You're describing exactly how I'm reacting (and yes, I'd forgotten, the planes actually start at 4:30am and they wake me up - I'm shattered today). It really is a vicious cycle and I think you're right, I need it to become a virtuous one instead. I'm actually seeing a therapist who will hopefully help me with this (yes, it really is that bad for me right now).

I've used two earplug brands but they didn't help much. I'll give the Moldex Sparks a go. I like the idea of just having them by the bed to help relaxation.

We also have good double-glazing which really helps with the noise, but even hearing them slighly indoors is triggering me. As I say, I'd love to have the windows open or sit out when it's hot, but I cannot make myself do it. I'm also getting blackout curtains installed next week which will also hopefully help.

Thanks again, really appreciate the response

 Oh, btw...

35 minutes ago, ArchieCarlos said:

I’m pleased to say that I’m not bothered anymore

How long did it take for that to happen?

Edited Sunday at 17:34 by BrendanC

[Peckhampam]

Hi

You wrote " Please, even if you mean well, don't say 'you just get used to it" BUT the problem is that that  is the truth. 

I am very sensitive to noise and when I developed tinnitus I nearly killed my GP when he said I would get used to it, but of course I did....as I got used to airplane noise.  You are right it is a battle with yourself as to how you react.  A couple of sessions of hypnotherapy could be really helpful for that.

All the best

[BrendanC]

 Thank you, and I take your point about 'you just get used to it'.

How long did it take for you to get used to the plane noise?

[malumbu]

I was having a hard time at work a few years ago and I would listen to the planes landing from 5 in the morning, now I rarely notice.  Our brains are good at selectively blocking noise out.  If you watch TV when they are out on location, you may get the rumble of traffic, which you very much notice.  But I am generally unaware of the rumble of the South Circ, which is often there at home.

Go up to Hounslow and hear the roar of the planes there and you appreciate how bad it can get.  

But on a still hot night with the windows open I can hear everything.  And refuse collection is now very early, I expect due to current hot weather and don't start me on the scapy road cleaner first thing in the morning .

[ArchieCarlos]

 

1 hour ago, BrendanC said:

 Oh, btw...

How long did it take for that to happen?

I’m not sure exactly. I think it was a few years of on and off at the beginning until I found solutions. I noticed that it was especially difficult for me when there were other issues in my life which were making me more anxious (eg cancer) and more sensitive to irritants. I think you’re on the right track with therapy, and maybe give a shot to hypnotherapy as Peckhampam said. At this point it’s no longer a question of decibels but of psychology. 

[Peckhampam]

2 hours ago, BrendanC said:

 Thank you, and I take your point about 'you just get used to it'.

How long did it take for you to get used to the plane noise?

It will have been months-but you have good days,then they get more frequent and then you realise that it isn't a problem any more

[Spartacus]

Every so 0ften a thread about plane noise pops up. 

Normally complaining about how loud it is over the area 🤔

It can get a tad annoying if the wind is in the wrong direction and flight paths are shifted, but unfortunately it is our (collective) doing. 

No one wants to give up their foreign holidays, their imported from Peru out of season asparagus, goods from the far east, business trips when zoom/teams will suffice or even quick trips up and down the country (admittedly often cheaper than the train) 

Unfortunately we all want to fly more, not less which means more crowded skies, more noise and often more people disrupted. 

I do feel for you @BrendanC and it does ebb and flow, personally I got used to it over a winter period when windows are shut and as spring summer returned, with windows gradually cracking wider open, the increase in noise became more tolerable. Hang on a few months and hopefully next spring will be better

 

[BrendanC]

Thank you. I think perhaps having moved here just as it got hot might not have helped either. I live in a new build and it's sweltering. So yes, let's hope as we enter autumn I'll be happier with windows closed and at a decent temperature. 

[figgins]

The thing is, you WILL get used to it. I thought I never would, but I've been in SE22 for sixteen years and I barely notice the noise any more. Sometimes in the morning, I hear them and I think, ah, it must be six AM, as the planes have started, but then I go back to sleep. I used to live in SE5 back in the day, and we used to get Concorde going over at 17.30 every day - wild. 

[Sue]

4 hours ago, BrendanC said:

Thank you. I think perhaps having moved here just as it got hot might not have helped either. I live in a new build and it's sweltering. So yes, let's hope as we enter autumn I'll be happier with windows closed and at a decent temperature. 

Advice I have read says opening your windows during the day in hot weather will make your rooms even hotter.

Apparently we should open them only  in the evening (and presumably early morning) when it is cooler!

And re the plane noise, I too have found I got used to it, and I am very sensitive to background noise.

I can't remember how long it took though. It seems to have got a lot worse over the thirty odd years I've lived here, though maybe that's my imagination, but I don't notice it much any more. I do miss seeing Concorde going over though!

I have acoustic glass in my bedroom, but that was because a neighbour's boiler was waking me up every morning 😂 

The window man told me it was the glass they used for airport offices, but I  can still hear planes through it (faintly!)

[Penguin68]

I would advise, particularly if you are working at home, active noise cancelling headphones - these take ambient noise and re-broadcast it out of sequence so that the initiating noise is cancelled - this will much reduce the perceived volume of the aircraft. However, it is, as others have said, also a psychological issue - I only actually 'hear' aircraft (normally) when my attention is drawn to them. I have lived under the flightpaths (in ED) for 35 or so years (Concord used to fly over every evening once, glorious sight) and I have never been bothered by the noise, though on occasion I have had to break-off a conversation because of it! 

Some, I think, find CBT of help in learning to cope cognitively with the noise.

The more you think of it as a problem (sorry, this isn't helping) the more it will be one, I'm afraid. But it can be overcome cognitively. And there are mechanical routes to some assistance as well.

[HeadNun]

18 hours ago, BrendanC said:

Please, even if you mean well, don't say 'you just get used to it' or 'I don't notice it'. I need to hear from people who found it a real problem, and how they managed to overcome it because right now, I don't see how I'm going to 'get used' to this. Very happy if anyone wants to private message me about it rather than share their story in public.

Dear Brendan, forgive me if I say anything that hits a raw nerve. It's significant that you appeal to people to confirm to you that this is a genuine, big problem that needs to be overcome. You are looking for validation that the thing you have become fixated on is at the root of all your anxiety. It's not. The fact that you read up about it, and are tracking the flights, suggests that you are the only one giving this problem oxygen. I suspect (and I say this is as an anxious person, so please don't take offence), that if it wasn't planes being attributed to your anxiety, it might be something else. 

Moving house and putting every last penny you have into bricks and mortar is stressful and anxiety-inducing. Might it be that your anxiety over plane noise is somehow caught up with the fear of having made a purchase that you might be regretting? Are you looking for flaws in your purchasing decision (I know I freaked when I bought my last place and spent ages looking for holes, even though it was a sound buy. It was just the fear of having parted with so much money)? If so, let the planes go and focus on what you love about your new home. 

Also, I have a few, counter-intuitive suggestions. First, get yourself a nice, mulberry silk eye mask. With one of these one, I can sleep until late on a summer morning, with my windows flung open all night. It's psychological - when you're wearing the mask, your brain knows it's time to sleep, no matter what's going on outside. 

Finally, it sounds as if you have some outside space. Take yourself out there with a something that gives you pleasure - a nice cup of tea, a book, a G&T, some chocolate cake, whatever you love - and listen to the planes. Instead of trying to block them out, let them in, listen carefully to each one that passes and don't fight it. Ask yourself where each one is going, lean in to them. And maybe try some nice deep breathing at the same time. I think, if you try this for a while, you might find it starts to bother you less.

 

Edited yesterday at 10:58 by HeadNun

[erfy12345]

When first moving to East Dulwich plane noise was very noticeable. Had single glazing, so got secondary glazing fitted and that made a big difference to noise. Having loft insulation may help too if you're on the top floor with no insulation above.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

You're not wrong that it is a bit noisy sometimes, OP. Boringly, most people are also right when they say most people get used to it. On the upside, it's much better to have a generalised "clean" noise like aeroplane noise than eg finding out your neighbours play loud music until 3am. Sorry if this seems glib, it's not meant to be.

[BrendanC]

Wow. I really didn't expect so many supportive - and sensible - comments. I really am very grateful, thank you.

Just to address some of them...

5 hours ago, Sue said:

Apparently we should open them only  in the evening (and presumably early morning) when it is cooler!

 

You're right, and I've tried that but my (new) house is generally 2-3 degrees above ambient without heating on. I've found a fan helps, even if it doesn't actually make the place cooler. My previous place was a 17th century cottage in Bucks which was permanently cold! Before that, an ex council flat in Crouch End which was also a bit draughty. So, I'm probably just getting adjusted to a 'normal' house. Also oddly enough I tried some of the 'rain noise' apps to help with the plane noise and they also made me feel curiously 'cooler'. Which brings me to...

4 hours ago, Penguin68 said:

I would advise, particularly if you are working at home, active noise cancelling headphones

This is a great recommendation and one I've considered recently too. I don't actually work cos I retired last year, and ideally I'd have something I can actually go to sleep with, but yes, I do like the idea of active headphones. Definitely one to think about, thanks.

4 hours ago, HeadNun said:

It's significant that you appeal to people to confirm to you that this is a genuine, big problem that needs to be overcome. You are looking for validation that the thing you have become fixated on is at the root of all your anxiety. It's not. The fact that you read up about it, and are tracking the flights, suggests that you are the only one giving this problem oxygen. I suspect (and I say this is as an anxious person, so please don't take offence), that if it wasn't planes being attributed to your anxiety, it might be something else. 

I am in total agreement, and thank you for challenging me here. I saw a therapist for the first time last week and it does seem there are issues I really need to address. I have 'freaked out' in the past during periods of significant stress, and yes, I can see that I'm attributing the stress this time to the planes - when that's just a symptom, not necessarily a cause. However, it was pretty traumatic to have moved in, had two wonderful days (because by coincidence it was an easterly wind) then, on the Monday, when my partner went to work, a plane went overhead, low and loud, I thought to myself "Wow, I hope that doesn't happen too often", and severa hours later I'm a gibbering wreck. But, I totally take your point, and I'm going to work on myself, because, well, at 55 years of age, it's probably about time...

Again, thanks all, as I say I really didn't expect so much help but there's been a lot of good, considered advice here.

[IlonaM]

Hello Brendon,

As someone with noise sensitivities as well I have found Loop earplugs have been very helpful (both night and day) - they take the edge off but still allow conversation or listening to your radio etc. They have several different models including a combination one and good reviews (see their website or Amazon etc.).

After several years of living in the area I really did notice the difference when the planes stopped during the Icelandic volcanic episode - boy it was a shock when they started again!! But now I notice them as they're going over, but like HeadNun suggests, acknowledge them and enjoy my garden or whatever I'm doing. Neighbour loud music, on the other hand, drives me up the wall!!

Wishing you every enjoyment in your new home and I hope that the planes become a minor element of the background sounds of life here soon.