Save TigerSharks Swim Club at Alleyns

[Abba]

We have a thriving sporting culture in the East Dulwich area and so I am extremely disappointed to announce that Alleyns School has decided to take away the pool time they rent to a local swim club that encourages kids and parents to train together. Tigersharks Swim Club has trained at Alleyns pool for 27 years and has been given 2 weeks notice by the school to terminate that relationship. It is devastating to both the group of 150 swimmers and the coaching team - it is their livelihood. We are trying to change the decision and so if you have ever swam at Tigersharks, know someone who has, or would just like to support us, please add your name in the comments below as we try and petition the school on the basis of community, inclusion and just downright fairness. Thanks so much in advance. 

[vladi]

Alleyns would most probably have based their decision on regular participation numbers by Tigersharks . You have mentioned a "group of 150 swimmers" but it might help if you can accurately quantify the regular attendance numbers.

My understanding is that the regular participation is significantly less.

[alice]

Roll on VAT

[gsirett]

  On 23/06/2024 at 19:34, vladi said:

Alleyns would most probably have based their decision on regular participation numbers by Tigersharks . You have mentioned a "group of 150 swimmers" but it might help if you can accurately quantify the regular attendance numbers.

My understanding is that the regular participation is significantly less.

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Me and my family are some of the many members affected by this short-sighted decision - and there's plenty of people in the pool when we go every week.: children learning to swim, families swimming together, etc
From what i understand, absolutely  no reason has been given by the school for pulling out for this 27 year relationship - so hard to know why they are trying to do this. 

 

 

[jocs]

Tiger Sharks holds a special place in my heart - not only did both my children learn to swim at Tiger Sharks but it was also where I learnt to swim properly for the very first time.  Rather than watching their lessons each week, I was encouraged into the pool and Chris expertly and patiently taught me how to breath properly while swimming. 
If correct, this decision to terminate Tiger Sharks contract with little or no explanation feels very wrong. It’s no way to treat anyone, let alone an organisation with which you’ve had a 27 year relationship. Schools should be anchor institutions, at the heart of the community - I hope Alleyn’s aren’t turning their backs on this civic duty, as historically this was always something they did quite well.  

 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Tigersharks was great for us.

Alleyns seems to be by far the most antisocial of the three big private schools around here. They seem determined to alienate their neighbours 

[VPaiva]

Wow, thanks for making this issue public. I thought I was the only one outraged at what took place. I am angered at this decision and the way that this was dealt with.  

I am one of many persons affected by this decision - the way that Alleyn's School dealt with the situation was very careless and inconsiderate to Kris, the coach of the team. He was given very short notice on this decision, and no clear reason as to why this happened. They also did not allow for him to renegotiate terms or suggested alternatives. Really unfair and inconsiderate from what is meant to be a role model institution and their role in the community. 

Personally, this is terrible news too - Tiger sharks swimming lessons were the place where I could just switch off from the pressure of the day to day, and with all the benefits it has in my well being and mental health. It helped me keep up with my swimming practice, and doing so without being under pressure from competitive swimmers or from the intense time commitment for lessons from other clubs. This also affects a very large community of users who have grown under Kris's guidance and feedback - this really is just an appalling situation and I would say this just tarnishes the Alleyn's School brand severely.

Please, do add my name to any sort of letter to campaign on the issue. My name is Vitor Paiva, and I have been at Tiger sharks with Kris since 2016.  

[Tobyr1]

  On 23/06/2024 at 19:34, vladi said:

Alleyns would most probably have based their decision on regular participation numbers by Tigersharks . You have mentioned a "group of 150 swimmers" but it might help if you can accurately quantify the regular attendance numbers.

My understanding is that the regular participation is significantly less.

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The pool is always full when we’re swimming. Regular attendance really isn’t an issue. Sessions are always well attended. Perhaps this is why Alleyn’s wants to co-opt it and try to do it in house to make more direct profit

[Abba]

The 150 swimmers is the monthly count of regular swimmers over the Monday, Thursday and Sunday sessions the club has (had) access to. The total Club membership count is 217. Tigersharks have supported national swimmers to achieve high standards in swimming and water polo. Krys is a gifted coach who has helped many ambitious individual athletes, myself included, who holds a world ranking of 5 in the 200m Butterfly. It is not the Club's goal to achieve just numbers or status. We support challenged swimmers who are not suited to high level achievement. WE ARE A COMMUNITY CLUB offering bursaries and reduced rates. Inclusion is at our heart.

[steev]

I joined Tiger Sharks 3y ago so my kids could learn an essential life skill, which their own school could not support.

3y later and they've gone from being afraid of the deep end, to being among the strongest swimmers in their school.

Even better - I get to swim at the same time (and can now even do a passable butterfly!).

Tiger Sharks is a special community - hopefully Alleyn's will see sense here.

[Mav]

  On 23/06/2024 at 19:38, alice said:

Roll on VAT

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Law of unintended consequences perhaps?

[VPaiva]

  On 23/06/2024 at 21:13, Mav said:

Law of unintended consequences perhaps?

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I think there is more to it that just that - no amount of running the club themselves, which would also incur costs, would compensate for that change...

The thing is, and for what seems to have taken place - this is only affecting Krys classes, and by extension, the Tiger shark swimming club.  None of the other clubs who also use the same facilities have had their activity restricted and stopped. They all seem to continue to operate the same way as before, and are expected to continue to do so for next year. This is very discriminatory towards the users of the club, and to Krys himself. 

So, yeah, it is quite a rubbish and despicable attitude from Alleyn's School to behave like this. I mean, one is there for 27years, every single year, week and weekends, building the club and the community from the ground up. And what does one get for one's efforts? A simple call over the phone to announce that the school is not going to renew his contract and that he has to go?  This 2 weeks before the term time finishes, and when everyone was already thinking about the beginning of the new term next year? And no justification over the phone or an invitation to a meeting to discuss the situation. Just a phone call and goodbye. It's rubbish behavior... This coming from a school that wants to be seen as setting a high standard of conduct for the community... 

Would you be happy if you had put in the effort over the years, creating the club and the community from the ground up, just for someone to then throw you out and steal your efforts and ideas, and profit from them instead? Because that's what Alleyn's School is seen to be doing in here... Don't they have enough already??

Edited June 23, 2024 by VPaiva

[CPR Dave]

I'm guessing there will be lots of unfortunate decisions made like this as the private schools tighten thier belts to find the money for Labour's new 20% VAT on fees. 

The community will pay a hefty price for that policy.

[tiddles]

Doubt it has anything to do with that… 

[Asset]

Really sad. My son and I swam there 15 or so years ago. With teaching from Krys my son went on to swim at the London Youth Games and be chosen to swim for London at national level. This has been a great resource for the local community for a very long time and it is shocking there has been no proper communication from the school with a reason given for ending such a long relationship. It shows a distinct lack of basic good manners. 

[gsirett]

  On 23/06/2024 at 22:14, CPR Dave said:

I'm guessing there will be lots of unfortunate decisions made like this as the private schools tighten thier belts to find the money for Labour's new 20% VAT on fees. 

The community will pay a hefty price for that policy.

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Don't think it is a financial decision. The club has always rented to pool from Alleyns and they were told that there was no option to re-negotiate. A 27 year relationship terminated with 2 weeks notice and no reason given.

My only thought us that it could be a strategy: independent schools have, over the last few years, made a lot of the support they give to local communities - a cynic may say that was done (even partly) to prevent them losing charity status & paying VAT. So, it could be that Tigersharks is a victim of the school withdrawing such goodwill "if you dont scratch our backs, we wont yours"  now such changes seem  inevitable 

I really hope this isn't the case, because it would fly in the face of a number of their values

[Leedojo]

Even if this is true Alleyns could have arranged a meeting in person with Krys to discuss. Alleyn’s has no values in my opinion & I’m so glad my children don’t go there. Pity for all those families throwing their £££ at a school hoping their children will be raised by the best faculty money can buy. 😤

[schneidypops11@gmail]

Save this squad!!

[lbsmith73]

If you can just park the VAT argument this is about a local club providing sporting/leisure opportunities for the local community. As a nation whether it is the private or public sector we should be encouraging and developing sports clubs, the benefits to the local community regards health and well-being are fundamental to a healthy society. Decisions like this have far reaching consequences and I hope they will consider the strong sense of community feeling and reverse this decision. 

[Penguin68]

Why would Alleyn's do this, unless, perhaps (a) they found they could get a better return for the slot booked or (b) there is some other reason that they choose not to make public? The time this relationship has been going on for, and the apparently public good it has engendered would make me suspect that for Alleyn's to have made this decision there is something we don't know. Much as many may dislike a public school and what it does, these people really aren't fools. And yet. on the face of it, this seems a foolish decision.

Edited June 24, 2024 by Penguin68

[lollol]

  On 24/06/2024 at 06:00, tiddles said:

Doubt it has anything to do with that… 

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I think the VAT issue should not just be dismissed. You think parents sending their children to independent schools are all very wealthy and it’s not the case for all. I presume they will need to look for more lucrative income streams to avoid passing on the full 20% VAT to parents. It should not be underestimated what the VAT policy will do to state education and local communities (as well as the psychological and emotional damage it will have on families and children in independent education who keep getting forgotten as apparently they can just pay more). That said it is extremely poor form not to explain why they are ending this longstanding relationship and to seemingly have potentially singled out one club.

[tariqj]

The termination decision of Tiger Sharks by Alleyns is very diappointing in principle and in the way it was done with little regard for a small business owner and the community he has served with distinction for more than a quarter of a century.  I could barely swim a length before I joined in my late 30s and I now as a 50 something I am relatively proficient (have done a few open water distance swims) thanks to Kris and the team. He taught me, my wife, my elderly aunt with whom he was exceptionally patient and supportive and all 3 of my kids and 2 nieces. I cannot imagine another community swim club with anything like the same product and ethos.  In times when mental health is much higher on the agenda I can only say that Tiger Sharkshas made such a meaningful impact on our lives over many years and I cannot adequately express our deep sadness, anger and disappointment with the decision that has been made and the way it has been done.

Edited June 24, 2024 by tariqj
incomplete sentence

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

  On 24/06/2024 at 13:55, Penguin68 said:

Why would Alleyn's do this...these people really aren't fools. 

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How familiar are you with Alleyns and how it has previously run its construction projects, dealt with noise issues, engaged with its neighbours, responding to traffic and parking issues...? 

[vladi]

The way it seems is that the elephant in the room here is upcoming liability to VAT. To qualify for charity status, Alleyns was obliged to provide a wide variety of support to the wider community. 

Imposing VAT means the community obligation can be dispensed with . Should the Tigersharks access be continued then they will be liable to VAT at 20%.

As to the other support that Alleys provides, then its up to them to decide whether they continue with it or whether they charge.

Imposing VAT on private education will certainly have a wide range of unintended consequences.

Edited June 24, 2024 by vladi

[VPaiva]

  On 23/06/2024 at 22:14, CPR Dave said:

I'm guessing there will be lots of unfortunate decisions made like this as the private schools tighten thier belts to find the money for Labour's new 20% VAT on fees. 

The community will pay a hefty price for that policy.

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Again, I am not sure it is that simple, and I suspect there is bad faith in the mixture from the side of Alleyn's School. 

They have not cancelled the contracts for other clubs/teams using the facilities - they will continue using the facilities as they have been, and they haven't had the same treatment that they gave to Krys and the Tiger sharks swimming club (not renewing the contract, and informing him of the decision over the phone, with no opportunity for discussion or renegotiation of terms). 

This is no longer about VAT, this is just careless and inconsiderate behavior from an institution that is meant to known and behave better. This is discrimination, and even ageism comes to mind, as they probably expected Krys to just accept it.... This is disgraceful, and for all the talk about Alleyn's School playing ball because it suited them up until now, the community should roll back any benefit that Alleyn's School have received over the years...

 

This is an unacceptable way to manage the situation, and for all those that are trying to rationalize the situation, could you just consider how would you feel if you had put in the effort over 27 years, giving away your weeks and weekends, come rain or sunshine, developing something from the ground up and creating a club not only cherished but of great benefit to the community, to have it taken away by an institution when it suited them and without the need to further clarify and explain their decision? This is opportunistic and greedy behavior from Alleyn's School, and it should be denounced and shamed.