Obama Rocks

[david_carnell]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> I have to say I wasn't fooled by TB for even a

> split second,

He says that now but I swear I've seen a photo of him with a red rosette.

Oh, that may have been his stag do rather than '97.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

All is lost. He supports West Ham.

I know Michael Jackson does but Barack?

How?

[p_in_ed]

Please keep him safe.

[mockney piers]

As it happens, he's denied ever supporting West Ham in some GQ interview.

All IS lost!!!!!

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I'm really happy the turnout was so high and his vote has united people - but I am still cynical after what happened with Blair - I pray to God he doesn't sell out to big business the way Blair did.

[mockney piers]

Here's your list of the people he owes big time.

No oilmen, lots of media, Ivy League academia and banking

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638

No sign of Bernie Ecclestone though!!

[Tony.London Suburbs]

mockney piers Wrote:

As it happens, he's denied ever supporting West Ham in some GQ interview.

All IS lost!!!!!

I'm liking the boy more and more.

Closet Millwall Fan imdo.

[Marmora Man]

Like Giggirl I felt the enthusiasm on Tuesday night at a party, eating chilli, drinking Bud and watching the US presidential election results come in. Like her I also feel a bit like a party pooper in offering criticism of Barack Obama or being cynical about his election. I believe he is more intelligent that Tony Blair and I hope my cynicism is misplaced. Barack Obama's speech making is magnificent and his rhetoric is mesmerising but we should be aware - he hasn't done anything yet and his policies have yet to be articulated

So a bit of rain on the parade - here goes:

The range of opinion about Barack Obama's election seems to have two extremes - the BBC, the Guardian the European Union, Greenpeace, EDF and similarly inclined groupings believes he is a fusion of Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King and the second coming. At the other extreme those disinclined to see a black president seem to believe he will surround himself with Black Panther bodyguards and declare Ebonics the official language of America.

Both opinions are clearly wrong and neither worth commenting on.

The new presidency is no more about having a black man in charge than New Labour was about having Scottish voices in government. It?s about a desire for change ? brought about more by the failed policies of the outgoing administration and president than the new exciting candidate. The Barack Obama presidency now has no political opposition except a group of neo-cons who disgraced themselves during the Bush presidency - the parallels with 1997 in UK are obvious. In Barack Obama there is now a figurehead that cannot be mocked or even criticised without risk of the most horrid accusations. Barack Obama cannot be more stupid in his actions or more embarrassing in his utterances than Mr Bush has been. HOwever, his essential function as President will be to look after the perceived interests of America ? not redress every wrong in the world.

Predictions:

1. Barack Obama got his campaign funds in the usual way - from business interests that will now want their reward ? yes he harnessed the internet and thousands of small contributions but he is, like so many US presidents before him, in hock to big donors and pressure groups. He will need to operate within a political and economic system that remains dominated by those donors and businesses. There will be no big shift in real power or economic strategy in the US ? except that Democrats, and their supporters, typically have isolationist / protectionist tendencies so we?ll see imposition of tariffs and a lack of engagement in free trade talks.

2. With majorities in both the Senate and Congress the Democratic party can enact almost any legislation it likes. The Democrats are fully signed up the Al Gore view of global warming and the carbon reduction, renewable energy and anti nuclear energy policies that go with it. This may lead to expensive carbon reduction programmes and will not help stem the threatening global recession.

3. There will be a politically fudged withdrawal from Iraq ? handing over control and power to an under-trained Iraqi army and corrupt Iraqi politicians while claiming to have brought stability and democracy to that country.

4. There will be an increase in US military action in Afghanistan and the British will play a major part in that action ? cheerleading the new strategy. Western soldiers will continue to die thousands of miles from home for no discernible benefit to the US or Britain.

5. Within a year or so, the non-whites and many others who are celebrating the Obama victory around the world will have noticed that nothing much has changed as it affects their lives. Some, probably led by Reverend Jesse Jackson, will denounce him as a white man with a black face.

[mockney piers]

I published the lsit of top contributors above somewhere, and you're by and large right especially about the business, particularly the banking sector, but there wasn't a single lobby or pressure group contribution accepted, which I think can only be a good thing.

[Brendan]

What I don?t understand is why we don?t get to vote for the guy in charge of British foreign policy?

[mockney piers]

Interesting article from Salvoj Zizek in the London Review of Books.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/webonly/14/11/2008/zize01_.html

[Nero]

People will be disappointed in him, simply because he cannot be all things to all people, or some things to some people. The youngsters who got involved, rallied others to vote and went into overdrive on his behalf will learn, sooner rather than later, that Mr Obama is a politician, living in the most political city in the world with the most difficult job to do. I am pleased that his election might begin to break down some barriers, but I am doubtful that tangible benefits will be felt by people in the US even after his four years will come to an end. He will be found wanting, like any leader, and I think that his inexperience and reliance on spin - for that is what it is - will undermine him.

[SeanMacGabhann]

that is what WHAT is exactly? Everything he says?

Spin is slightly maligned I would say - it is surely a pre-requisite in a world where newspapers print the most outrageous slurs and fears and lots of people just swallow it. Spin becomes a weapon to fight back with

[mockney piers]

It's when it's spin instead of substance that things are bad.

I'd argue that that characterised Blairism.

Obama has kept a very tight campaign, which was won despite offering very few solid policies, maintaining a tone of hope and talk of change.

Only time will tell whether there will be substance to back up his words, but his announcement that he will shut down Guantanamo is a good start (no mention of the hundreds rotting in foreign prisons thanks to rendition mind) and from the roles he's filled so far he also seems to be fulfilling his right man for the job regardless of who, for instance keeping Robert Gates in the Sec Defense role.

[matthew123]

It did make me chuckle reading all the Facebook status updates from friends happy that Barack Obama had been elected the next President of the United States - as I suspect their sentiment, and many others, is that Obama seems a jolly good chap and is without doubt the new Gandhi.

Every single Southern state and majority of the mid west voted for his rival McCain - and by quite big margins. whereas Obama cleaned up similarly the West Coast and most of the Northern states. In other words Old Boy America voted McCain and Modern America voted Obama. According to the BBC on election day, Obama gained 95% of the Black vote across the US - and on the same thread, McCain took 75% of White Evangelical Christians.

Just goes to show that actual policies don't count for much - it was only 15 months ago that Obama said let's bomb Pakistan. In Aug 2007, Obama said: "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," - obviously President Musharraf has now gone but you get the tone. In same speech he said, "The first step must be getting off the wrong battlefield in Iraq, and taking the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan,"

March 2007: Sen. Barack Obama said the use of military force should not be taken off the table when dealing with Iran, which he called "a threat to all of us." September this year he said: "It is unacceptable for Iran to possess a nuclear weapon. It would be a game changer, and I've said that repeatedly. I've also said I would never take a military option off the table." Also in regard Iran he said, "I will never hesitate to use our military force in order to protect the homeland and United States' interests."

No doubt he can talk the talk.. but we shall see what he delivers in due course.

[Nero]

I misused the word 'spin'. I meant froth, hype, marketing, advertising.

It will get tough for him, and I predict that Michelle will become, to some at least, the US Cherie Blair. I suspect that he will on some issues become uber-American, willing to annoy his allies a la Bush so as to gain or keep support at home.

Please don't have him down as a great president even before his been handed the keys. It's unrealistic for him and for his supporters to think like that.

When he elects his cabinet and most of them are white, DC insiders, how will the black, grass-roots supporters react? When he decides to wage war, what will his Facebook friends think and do then?

[mockney piers]

good points Nero and pretty much bourne out by the fact that his administration are looking like they will be white political elites, many of them up to their neck in involvement with previous administrations.

Perhaps sensible, but doesn't really smack of the promised change. Indeed some backtracking on promises re Iraq will likely be his first foreign policy decision.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688537606232319.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[SeanMacGabhann]

given that there aren't many days where people get to be optimistic, can we give the guy a chance at least?

So yes, he is one man. yes he is constrained by many levers, competing interests yadda yadda

But if we believe that W was THAT bad, then somebody else can be equivalently good. At least. And for now, that's good enough.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

The new "Kennedy and Jackie O."...

Michelle will soon be the new "O" thats for sure.

Very stylish and classy Lady.:)

[PeckhamRose]

I feel strangely hopeful and positive about him. I admit I did get emotional at Clinton's inaugeration specially listening to Maya Angelou's contribution.

He will have so many hurdles including of course the fact racism is just still so rife in America.

Indeed just one man.

But maybe one honest man who is upfront about what his problems are may make a difference to how the people feel about the problems and what they do themselves to overcome them. I like he has already said that people have to change their attitudes too. Big talk!

[snorky]

You have been well & truly mugged people.

Of course I cant say that in public as Obama is the new Messiah & I dont want to be charged with heresy.

There are some intellegent people on this forum - I am surprised at you.

[Keef]

I'm kind of with Snorky having thought about it quite a bit.

Yes he seems a bit different, and yes America and the world are ready for a change. However, he is just one man, and he has been left with a big mess to clean up, and whilst a staggering number of Americans said in a poll last week that they were pleased he was taking over, they also said they'd give him 2 years to make a difference...

Hang on, didn't you just give Bush 8 years, how is 2 years going to be enough time to do anything?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Yes optimism is overly-indulged by the media at the moment, but being realistic, who else would we have entering office at the moment?

snorky is of the opinion that it doesn't matter who is elected as the whole system is so rotten we need some kind of anarchic revolution. Maybe we do, maybe we don't.. but I have yet to meet anyone I would follow on such a course ("no dude you totally miss the point, there will be no leaders and we will all be...." yeah yeah yeah - I'm no longer 14 and suceptible to that line)

If we are not so binary as to think Bush=bad/Obama=good and realise that genuine progress happens over time, not weeks and there will be all manner of pitfalls along the way, as things stand I can't think of anyone I would rather take office in america at this point in time

[david_carnell]

Ted Kennedy?

Jesse Ventura?

[Keef]

Jesse Ventura

Jesse "the body" Ventura you mean!