Southwark making its reuse & recycling centre ever harder to visit by van

[rollflick]

Has anyone tried to take a van to Southwark's recycling centre recently? It seems every year they try to make it more difficult. You now need to give 3 days notice, are limited to 4 trips per year and the latest wheeze is limiting van users to a one hour slot in the morning, timed to coincide with rush hour and the school run:

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/bins-and-recycling/recycling/recycling-centres/reuse-and-recycling-centre/?chapter=2

Van access is restricted to 8.30am and 9.30am on the date you have selected when booking. You must complete all unloading and leave the site during this time. This is due to vans generally taking much longer to unload and can obstruct or cause hazards to other site users because of their larger size.

This is bizarre as a different page says that

The busiest times are on Saturdays, Sundays and at the start and end of each day. You may have to queue if you visit during these times. There's usually no queue between 10am to 3pm on weekdays.

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/bins-and-recycling/recycling/recycling-centres/reuse-and-recycling-centre

How can they claim to be worried about hazards to other users then force van users to visit at the busiest times?

Living in a carfree household and relying occasionally on Zipcars, a majority of which seem to be (Zip)vans in the ED area now, these changes seem as unnecessary as they are annoying. But I only visit the centre once or twice a year, maybe others have different experiences and views?

[CPR Dave]

Presumably this is to encourage people to pay for their bulky items service instead of finding the most affordable way to get rid of stuff that only fits in a van. 

My guess is they are not encouraging vans to visit at the best time, they are encouraging people not turn up in a van at all so they can tax you to pick stuff at your home.

[Nigello]

Or it could be that unscrupulous firms were taking advantage of the facility which is funded by taxpayers and run by a council that has to work within finite means? 

[rollflick]

When I went today (in a car) staff basically admitted the time limit had been introduced to discourage anyone coming by van.

You already had to fill in a form to book in advance and were limited to four van trips per Southwark resident per year, with a requirement to show ID at the entrance. While it will be impossible to stop misuse 100%, that would surely keep it to low levels while not penalising legitimate residents.

It's also worth remembering that the centre was set up under a 2003 Private Finance Initiative contract with Veolia who run it. So I'm wondering how much this was Veolia or Southwark's doing. Perhaps Southwark agreed to the new limits to get a better price for the variation of the contract that is extending food waste collections to estates. It's all unacceptably murky and one doubts that Southwark's negotiating skills against a massive multinational were particularly effective.

By 2028 waste incineration is going to be brought into the Emissions Trading Scheme, massively increasing costs. With recycling levels flatlining for a decade in Southwark, despite ambitious targets, that's what's really going to blow a hole in council finances but councillors run a mile when anyone tries to raise the failings of this PFI contract.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

36 minutes ago, rollflick said:

one doubts that Southwark's negotiating skills against a massive multinational were particularly effective.

I've worked half my life in massive multinationals. I don't know why anyone thinks they're evil geniuses. They make terrible decisions all the time. I mean - the fact they hired me proves it...

[vladi]

I sympathise with the Council because if they make it too difficult or expensive to dispose of waste from vans then the amount of fly tipping increases. Limiting access to four vans per year also increases the potential for fly tipping. 

I would suggest having a charging system based on ANPR identification for vans. If there's usually no queue between 10am to 3pm on weekdays, then vans could be charged a reduced (modest) rate during that time  slot and charged a higher rate outside those times. And the higher rate for more than 4 trips in a year. Forget the requirement to book in advance.

[KidKruger]

If you have a campervan (windows all round, seats in) they’re treated just like cars - come unannounced as often as you need. So I think it’s a way to avoid commercial interests’ abuse of the service. Imagine if you provided a local clearance service, you could empty peoples gardens and houses and take it straight to the dump and have nothing to pay. 

[Jenijenjen]

2 hours ago, KidKruger said:

If you have a campervan (windows all round, seats in) they’re treated just like cars - come unannounced as often as you need. So I think it’s a way to avoid commercial interests’ abuse of the service. Imagine if you provided a local clearance service, you could empty peoples gardens and houses and take it straight to the dump and have nothing to pay. 

I'm curious, if commercial enterprises are restricted to how many times they can use the council recycling facility how then do they dispose of the waste?

[KidKruger]

9 minutes ago, Jenijenjen said:

I'm curious, if commercial enterprises are restricted to how many times they can use the council recycling facility how then do they dispose of the waste?

They pay I think.

[CPR Dave]

Commercial aren't allowed to use it at all. That's why you have to prove you're a resident disposing of residential waste. The kind of commercial operations that try to get rid of waste on the cheap don't show up at the tip, they dump it on the streets.

Do Veolia run the bulky waste service too?

[Spartacus]

There's an article on the BBC website today talking about some councils increasing fines for fly tipping.

BBC News - Londoners told not to fly-tip as fines increase
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5117rdn92wo

And quite right that fly tippers are penalised, however playing devil's advocat here, as councils have made it harder amd harder for businesses and households to get rid of bulk waste, have they had a partial hand in increasing fly tipping? 

Maybe there needs to be a rethink about how bulk or large waste is delt with to remove the prospect of fly tipping and to make it easier for recycling without penalising those getting rid of rubbish rather than, as the OP points out, making it harder to get rid off thus raising the risk of fly tipping? 

 

[malumbu]

No excuse for fly tipping.  If it costs more then charge your customer more. I use a licensed man and his van for big gardening and building DIY projects. 

[Spartacus]

@malumbu the question concerns is there a better way for councils to work with businesses and residents to dispose of waste? 

Thete was a clear increase in fly tipping when councils made it more restrictive to dispose of waste, so rather than making it harder and with bigger fines, is there a better model where recycling can be at the forefront and less restrictive to dispose of waste ? 

[malumbu]

8 hours ago, Spartacus said:

And quite right that fly tippers are penalised, however playing devil's advocat here, as councils have made it harder amd harder for businesses and households to get rid of bulk waste, have they had a partial hand in increasing fly tipping? 

 

So either house owners are fly tipping, or businesses are fly tipping.  No excuse for either.  I pay for my bulky waste to be disposed of by a licensed company.