Would the last 35-43 year old to leave East Dulwich.....

[Jah Lush]

I grew up in Dulwich and I'm still here and will probably always remain here but it's a natural progression. People move on. Most of the people I grew up with around Dulwich moved out a long long time ago. There are still a few scattered around but people get married, settle down have kids etc etc and either move to the sticks or abroad. I love it here though so I'm not budging.

I think you'll find that the people we would have called newbies ten years ago are the ones who are moving out. They're a transient lot. It's the natural order of progression for many.

[Jeremy]

There are bound to be other areas of London coming through which are "up-and-coming" and more affordable (many of us ended up in ED beceause it fell into that bracket 10+ years ago). It's not as if people are being forced into a straight-up choice between ED and Oxted. It all depends on whether you're willing to take a bit of a punt on slightly further out in SE or East London.

[LondonMix]

Yeah, everyone I know who lives in Eltham sees it as a "stepping stone" :)

I also think its odd people willing to take a punt on ED are less willing to do so for their next move. However, I imagine taking a punt as a young couple is different than doing so with small kids for a lot of people. Thinking about it, if I had to leave ED (after 8 years here), I'm not sure I'd be up for blazing a trail so to speak Jeremy

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LondonMix Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you

> > lived in Eltham, you wouldn't be experiencing

> > this.

>

>

> No, but you'd definitely want to mive! ;-)

[*Bob*]

When we moved here, the area was out of reach of lots of people on decent incomes. Now, the area is out of reach of lots of people on decent incomes. The threshold has gone up, but ultimately it's a case of more of the same.

Once upon a time, lots of people moved here begrudgingly because it was all they could afford!

[Jeremy]

I think you answered your own question LondonMix. Once kiddies come along, people don't want to risk ending up living somewhere a bit shit.

It's still a choice though, isn't it?

Not everyone can afford to buy a place in the area they'd like to live in, you make the choice which suits you best within your budget.

[El Pibe]

Obviously people are discounting the genius tack of building their own place in a forgotten rural corner of a country deep in recession, surely it's the only sensible move.

[Jeremy]

No, we already discussed Eltham.

[LondonMix]

Isn't that the truth! For eveyone its a balance between commute, ammentities, size of house, quality of schools etc etc. I doubt anyone gets everything off their wishlist.

However, I think a lot of people overestimate how large a house they really need. Even my rich friends in NY happily raise their kids in condos and no one thinks anything of it. For city-folk, a lot of Londoners are much more focused on living in a house and having an enormous backyard relative to other big cities I've lived in. I think that's why most expats I speak to are always commenting on how "young" London is regarding population. Moving out to the sticks in part is cultural not just financial...

Jeremy Wrote:

--

>

> Not everyone can afford to buy a place in the area

> they'd like to live in, you make the choice which

> suits you best within your budget.

[DaveR]

This is an interesting map:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/06b9f73c-48f9-11e1-974a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ZrZ1Ue5G

Hover over each postcode to see the actual figures for that area. Almost no difference in ?/sq. ft between SE21 and SE22. Big differences between SE22 and every other bordering area. Admittedly, this is now 18 months old, but it remains the case that ED has got expensive compared to the rest of SE London rather than SE London generally becoming wholly unaffordable. The map also shows quite starkly the divide between inner and outer suburbs - Brixton and Hackney more expensive than Finchley.

Getting back to the specific point of the thread, I'm afraid it's just whingeing, isn't it? When gentrification happens property prices go up and people who are priced out look for the next area to come up. When family life happens you suddenly discover that all the dough you used to blow on beer and fags and cabs is now required for nappies and scooters and swimming lessons, plus you have to get a big car and a bigger house. When the two things coincide, you may have to make a tough choice (Catford or Kent), but evidence of a demographic tragedy it ain't.

[ratty]

We left for Hayes in Kent 3 months ago this week. I honestly would not come back now. ED looks very different from outside looking in and it isn't as pleasant as it seemed when we lived there.

We were lucky in that we bought our 2 bed house in SE22 in 2004 and life was affordable then. I have no idea how couples can afford it now. Certainly my missus and I could not afford to live in ED now even without 2 kids!

Very happy to have lived here (been in these parts since 1994) but happier now that I have left! (Upper end of the age bracket but just about clinging on! The wife's yet to get there though!)

Keef, I do feel your pain though moosh!

[LondonMix]

Are you saying life in the country is more genteel?

[*Bob*]

I think it goes something like this.

I like X

I like X

Property in X is getting expensive

Want a bigger house, more space

Property in X is getting expensive

Still want a bigger house, more space

X is not so great

Look at moving to Y

X is not so great

Move to Y

I hate X, it's full of knobs, glad I left.

Psychological readjustment complete. Live happy.

[Mick Mac]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Obviously people are discounting the genius tack

> of building their own place in a forgotten rural

> corner of a country deep in recession, surely it's

> the only sensible move.

It will soon be cheaper to buy one that someone else built for themselves a couple of years ago. There must be a few of those around.

[Mick Mac]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it goes something like this.

>

> I like X

> I like X

> Property in X is getting expensive

> Want a bigger house, more space

> Property in X is getting expensive

> Still want a bigger house, more space

> X is not so great

> Look at moving to Y

> X is not so great

> Move to Y

> I hate X, it's full of knobs, glad I left.

>

> Psychological readjustment complete. Live happy.

Usually a "good" Estate Agent can get you from line 1 of the above to line 11, in the space of a car journey from X to Y.

[womanofdulwich]

I am going to try and stick it out till I retire, and then sell up and buy something for half the price and use the rest as my pension. I think others may have the same plan.:)

[LondonMix]

Yeah, I've done that. Even for places I never actually got to live in :)

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it goes something like this.

>

> I like X

> I like X

> Property in X is getting expensive

> Want a bigger house, more space

> Property in X is getting expensive

> Still want a bigger house, more space

> X is not so great

> Look at moving to Y

> X is not so great

> Move to Y

> I hate X, it's full of knobs, glad I left.

>

> Psychological readjustment complete. Live happy.

[Burbage]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I am going to try and stick it out till I retire,

> and then sell up and buy something for half the

> price

I tried that, but I got made redundant first and then found out there's nowhere half the price of what I live in, save the Runcorn margins, and I don't know anybody there.

On the upside, it does mean SE22 may be trending towards a wiser demographic. which opens up happy vistas of zimmerish tea-dances in place of street art and craft fests. On the other hand, it might suggest that, before we know it, we'll have become the Old Persons of the postcode, reduced to ranting on trees, shouting at traffic and supping white lightning in the park. Given that, to date, we've neither got world peace nor jetpacks, I'd be tempted to bet on the latter.

But at least it's a plan, which is better than what most folk end up with.

[womanofdulwich]

Maybe we should all arrange a mass exodus in the future.

How about:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/Ilkeston/2-bed-houses.html ???

[Burbage]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

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> Maybe we should all arrange a mass exodus in the

> future.

That's practically the countryside. I doubt many of us will have the licence or the desire for that sort of life; stuck in the middle of nowhere, at the mercy of a travelling grocer and with nothing around but pub conversions and the bouncier sort of tourist. You'd just be taking your dreams of Waitrose and Art-Houses to somewhere else they won't be happening.

I may be wrong. There may be others who dream of incomering a village, like the Day of the Triffids without the romance, surviving on crates of sardines and using whist drives on Skype to raise the sherry-money. But even at those prices, you'd have to hope your clogs would pop before the money did, and that's no different from living here. It might work for men, who serve, on average, around eight years less, but that's not a healthy way to think, all the same.

[indiepanda]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree London would probably be pointless without

> at least two sides of the work/family/friends

> triangle in place.

I have two sides of the triangle in place and the other side (family) are close enough (but not too close!). But London is about the best place in the country to find work and make friends so unless you have a burning desire to be close to family, that makes London a pretty good bet for anyone who can afford it.

[Otta]

Being close to family becomes a lot more desirable when you factor in free childcare needs.

[indiepanda]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Being close to family becomes a lot more desirable

> when you factor in free childcare needs.

For some people, yes - but as I'd said earlier in the thread, I don't have or plan to have kids. In any case, even if I lived round the corner from my parents there wouldn't be any childcare on offer, free or otherwise.

[El Pibe]

"It will soon be cheaper to buy one that someone else built for themselves a couple of years ago. There must be a few of those around."

I'm pretty sure ours will be worth less than it cost when it's done. But we're not in negative equity and in no rush to sell, so that's fine, we'll wait for the next bubble ;)

[MarkE]

Going back to the original thought, for a moment...

MrBen Wrote:

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> Most houses

> round here are currently going to sealed bids and

> selling for ?750k+ to 32 year old couples from

> Clapham who?ve just sold flats. They?re filling

> the middle gap but not without the usual lasting

> change on the area (good/bad/discuss/etc)

Yes, there does seem to be something of a glut of this kind of behaviour at the moment, but it cannot run infinitely, and once that phase dies down a little (and assuming that these aren't all transients, looking to make a few quid on the property before moving out to the sticks themselves), then these will become the next generation of ED'ers. Lasting change doesn't occur overnight, by its very definition it requires time.

We moved to the area in 2012, and one of the things that struck me was the apparent dearth of people in the 45-65 age bracket. Looking along the station platform in the morning, the vast majority would appear to be between 25-40. Where did these middle-agers disappear to? Presuming that they ever populated ED, they must have moved away and vacated these homes into which the next generation (from SW London, or in many cases East and North East, or wherever) are moving.

[Jeremy]

People have been complaining for years about young people moving in (specifically from Clapham) and pushing up the prices. Yet again - nothing new.

Yeah it sucks when you can't afford the property you want because other people have more money than you. I know. C'est la vie...