Advice welcomed - potential dog kennel hill estate flat purchase

[Ves89]

Hi all,

I’m considering purchasing a leasehold flat on the Dog Kennel Hill Estate and am feeling a bit spooked by things I’ve seen about the spiralling debilitating costs of major and cyclical works levied at leaseholders by Southwark council (and councils in general). Especially as there is a ton of new regulation coming down the line for social housing, I am a bit concerned about my ability to pick up the leaseholder share of the cost of some of those mandated works for social tenants.
I wondered if anyone knows if there have been major works done on the estate in recent years before I get too far down the line with the purchase process. Or if anyone is aware of any that might be coming. Or has any experience of recent costs from Southwark council with properties on similar estates. The estate agents have obviously told me that everything’s been brought up to code so there’s no plans in the works but we all know what estate agents are like…grateful for any experiences or feedback anyone is willing to share! 

[tiddles]

I would ask for more info from the estate agent about what private owners have been presented with in the last 10 years. Ask for specifics - They can will say any old guff. It’s things like roof repairs which may not affect you directly but which you are responsible for paying a share of which can be pretty £££. Good luck! 

[George Orwell]

You are right to be spooked. Please think carefully, and then think carefully again and then don’t buy it. For example maybe Google what’s currently happening with L&Q charges. 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/article/2024/may/13/lq-has-raised-my-flats-service-charge-by-41-i-cant-afford-it?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[malumbu]

That's a bit of a scare story and applies to a housing association, not a local authority.  In my brief look through the article it wasn't clear if this was new build or taking over an old development.

It refers to increased insurance costs, and in some sectors eg motoring for some this has doubled in the last year 

Do your homework, ask the estate agent, maybe knock on the neighbour's door and hopefully others here will have first hand experience.

Elsewhere 40 years on from right to buy 40 years on, there are dilapidated estates built in the 50s, modern dangerous cladding etc.

There again there are some high quality older Peabody and LCC estates out there.

The bigger picture is affordable housing in the capital.  Elsewhere on this site a discussion on what 2 million buys you.

My first purchase was ex council concrete terrace and there had been a warning about the the steel reinforcements corroding.  Still standing I understand 

[mrwb]

Be very careful about what the estate agent tells you and make sure you independently verify it...

They have no obligation to be honest with you..., usually the reverse in fact, they'll often just tell you what you want to hear to get the deal done.

[spider69]

Also do not forget when you ask the Council for what Major works are in the pipeline and you get the answer none are planned. This could all change tomorrow or next week, next month.  Correct at the time of asking.

 

Beware. Many of these estates need a lot of work.

[malumbu]

More unhelpful advice.  Estate agents are regulated.  They have to act on behalf of the purchaser and potential buyer under the law.  Yes we all know of times they get things wrong, but if that is your starting view then nobody would ever buy or sell through an estate agent.

And ditto for views on the Mayor and local authority.  You'd never buy anything.  That's why there is a whole business for solicitors and legal assistants in conveyancing.  And yes, that can go pear shaped too.

[mrwb]

Unfortunately a lot of people are very naïve, which plays in to their hands, I recommend reading this:

https://www.propertysolvers.co.uk/articles/why-do-estate-agents-lie/

[vladi]

I suggest you write to the estate agent asking specific questions and request a written response. Otherwise they will tell you anything to get a sale.

Edited May 14, 2024 by vladi

[Froglander]

The estate agents are *supposed* to act on behalf of the sellers but they often don’t. They want to get the sale through asap so they can get their commission.  There should be a sellers information pack to accompany the sale.  Have you seen one for this property?   
 

 

 

[George Orwell]

Whatever research you do, however much you trust or don’t trust the estate agent, Southwark Council can suddenly hit you with a large surprise bill - and you can’t do a thing about it.

[Kathleen Olander]

Apart from planned works and emergency works, you will also be responsible for an annual service charge for a share in the insurance, gardening, cleaning, maintenance etc.

[sweetgirl]

IMO, bad move……

you will eventually pay the price!

leaseholders always get charged a premium rate & you have to wonder what they are paying for.

Someone I know had to sell their place & moved outside of London as they just couldn’t afford what the council were asking for!

[Penguin68]

It is certainly true that some ground landlords do exploit leaseholders. But much of what has been listed above as issues (and they are) are and should be addressed by your solicitor in correspondence with the sellers and their solicitor - not by and with the agent, whose client is in fact the seller. I would also advise trying to contact other leaseholders in this property to find out their impressions, There may be a leasehold tenants' association (I used to be Hon Sec of one such in the 1970s) Worth finding out.

Amended to add - well run private leaseholds may have a 'sinking fund' - so that leasehold tenants pay into that such that a sum builds to exist to meet large ticket items (roof repairs etc.) - although that does increase the annual costs it also offers a cushion against surprises. If such exists (but it probably won't where the council is the head landlord, then the head landlord should be paying-in (or accounting as if they had paid in) a similar sum for non leasehold tenants). 

Where a council is directly charging leasehold tenants but not others then they have to quite strictly account for monies both forecast and actually spent. They cannot just place the costs of works on the leaseholders but be clear how the costs have been pro-rated across all the properties. But something like roof repairs can be charged to all tenants and not just those occupying the top floor!

Edited May 15, 2024 by Penguin68

[Ves89]

On 15/05/2024 at 14:14, sweetgirl said:

IMO, bad move……

you will eventually pay the price!

leaseholders always get charged a premium rate & you have to wonder what they are paying for.

Someone I know had to sell their place & moved outside of London as they just couldn’t afford what the council were asking for!

My fear is also that in the event I was slapped with a huge bill I’d be unable to sell it due to that! So I guess in a way good to hear your friend was able to sell (although sorry to hear of the circumstances) 

On 14/05/2024 at 12:04, spider69 said:

Also do not forget when you ask the Council for what Major works are in the pipeline and you get the answer none are planned. This could all change tomorrow or next week, next month.  Correct at the time of asking.

 

Beware. Many of these estates need a lot of work.

Yes this is true. I think I read somewhere that they have to give you around 5 years notice of major works?? But that can’t be right because e.g. there’s new regulation coming down the line around minimum energy efficiency standards and they presumably can’t just be non-compliant with that .