Jump to content

Recommended Posts

The pot holes are getting worse, which is dangerous for all road users.

I saw a recent item on the BBC news about one resident, not local, putting up home made warning signs and on social media some people have also put items in the pot holes and photographed them to draw attention to the problem.

With all the extra revenue being taken from drivers by Southwark at the moment (LTN fines, CPZ revenue) surly they should be on top of the potholes, but alas they aren't.

Therefore do we need some sort of publicity campaign to shame Southwark into action ? 

 

 

BBC News - 'Daventry Banksie' shares inspiration for pothole campaign
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-68735580

(Sorry its a mirror post but this is ducks in potholes) 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cheeky-local-takes-matters-hands-32386337

Edited by Spartacus
Link to comment
https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/343501-going-to-pot/
Share on other sites

I remember thirty years ago media articles about the pothole crisis.  I'm not sure whether it is any better or worse than then.  Is there an objective measure?  Not that it is not an issue, but feels like flavour of the month at the moment.

 

RACs pothole index would suggest that there was a reduction in pothole related damage over the ten years 2009 to 2019, although the pothole index is based on a relative number (proportion of call outs due to pothole damage) rather than absolute.  And this was a time when I expect as cars became more reliable there were less call outs for old school mechanical breakdowns, as opposed to can't change my tyre, batter flat or wrong fuel - common causes now.  Pot hole breakdowns increased last year, and oddly during 2020, yet either side were up and down.  But there are just too many variables, including excessive wet, and excessive cold.  And car weight has gone up, in particularly due to heavier vehicles (SUVs).  Ford cutting small car production and the Volvo/Merc/JLR/BMW continuing to persuade many they have to have a large SUV as we transition to an electric fleet wont make things any better.

I expect that some of the current interest is due to the upcoming local authority and Mayoral elections, as a stick to beat Labour

 

RAC publish an annual report on motorists' issues, warning, some of us use this as evidence that there are a number of issues with motorists including attitudes to speeding https://www.rac.co.uk/report-on-motoringrac-patrols-attended-20-more-pothole-breakdowns-in-q4-2019-compared-to-the-same-period-a-year-earlier_w555_h555.webp.55527a136f9d963e8671e5abd13323aa.webp

Edited by malumbu

The number of real SUVs (Sports Utility Vehicles - meaning a modified car body on a truck chassis) is exaggerated (understandably) by a large number of cars now having bodies styled to look like classic SUVs - but in fact being made on a car chassis - these are no heavier (but see below) than the estate cars and people carriers they, in the main, replaced, equally 'bulky' but in a different way. Additional weight is also given where cars are hybrid or electric - because of the additional battery weights.

The impression we all have, helped by the all pervasive Nissan Qashqai, is that everywhere there are SUVs, but that isn't really so. More modern cars in general are heavier than their predecessors because of the additional safety etc. builds required of regulation. But this isn't a 'chelsea tractor' issue. It's about preferred looks and style.

What I have noticed, and commented on elsewhere, is that actual repair of pot holes, when it is undertaken, is very ineffective., with them reappearing very quickly. A man with a bucket of tar and a spade to knock it down really isn't sufficient.

Edited by Penguin68

From personal experience, the potholes this year are worse than ever before, what causes them isn't the question, its more what can be done to repair the existing ones to prevent accidents to all road users ? 

As I mentioned, there are revenues being generated but not spent on fixing potholes and how do we get or shame the council into fixing them? 🤔 

Cars are getting heavier, Sustrans report (green perspective): https://www.sustrans.org.uk/media/12439/why-are-cars-getting-bigger-a-deep-dive-into-how-uk-regulations-are-enabling-car-size-growth.pdf

RAC report (motorists' perspective) : https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/calls-for-changes-to-uk-car-parks-to-deal-with-weight-of-modern-cars/

There was a jump in the 90s due to changes to type approval (structural in passenger safety and technology), more increase in physical size and the introduction of NCAP standards.   Try driving an early 90s Citroen AX, less than half the weight of a typical modern car, great power to weight ratio, you develop great arm muscles steering it, and leg muscles braking, and it would all but disintegrate on impact with a wall at 70mph.

This cyclist has learned to live with potholes, not love them but live with them.  Slippy road surface more of an issue for me but that is another story.

 

Potholes are caused by water getting into tarmac and then freezing and expanding and breaking up the road surface....but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story about increases in car weight.....roads are designed for buses and lorries and they weigh far more than an SUV...#makesyouthink

2 minutes ago, Rockets said:

Potholes are caused by water getting into tarmac and then freezing and expanding and breaking up the road surface....but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story about increases in car weight.....roads are designed for buses and lorries and they weigh far more than an SUV...#makesyouthink

The freezing theory is just not appropriate here in London however your point about water penetration is correct. The tar top layer of the road is designed to act as a seal to prevent water penetrating into the lower strata  of the road base. The top tar layer deteriorates over time but cracks in it are primarily generated by vehicles with high axle loadings e.g. trucks and buses. These high loadings cause deformation which results in cracking of the tar barrier. Water penetrates then via the cracks into the sub-base and the sub-base is degraded. Result = potholes. No frost is required.

My original question was are roads getting worse or is it our perception. I expect the latter.  I was introduced to the term evidence based policy 30 years ago.  I thought surely all policy is evidence based. I'm still waiting for the evidence that pot holes are getting worse.  Solutions?  Lighter vehicles, less driving, higher taxes - indirect/general or direct.  Road user charging would be the best way forward.  

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/rac-pothole-index-statistics-data-and-projections/

 

Not the best evidence but certainly indicates matters are not improving.

Can CPZ and other council collected car- related revenue be ploughed back into road, pavement repair and upkeep? Is there info on this for Southwark? Surely this would be a better use of those funds than creation of areas like Dulwich Village Sq/ junction? 

My first chart was from the RAC but I explained that there are too many variables concerning their pothole index to demonstrate any sort of trend ie getting better or worse.  The RAC also has a snap shot rather than a series of annual returns from local authorities.

Lots of rhetoric from government and 5 Billion pounds.  Questions need, as ever, to be asked of them. Let's face it, it is an election year and they are doing everything they can to get the motorists' vote.

Enforcement penalties do not go to the highway maintenance budget.  I think that is right.  But as aware motorists with excellent driving standards why are we still infringing rules and the law?  Surely the pot is diminishing and will ultimately just cover enforcement costs 

Edited by malumbu
  • 2 weeks later...

Pot holes feel like they’re becoming more of an issue (based purely on my perception, don’t know what data there is). Even worse outside London imo. I suspect as Mal says, heavier vehicles are part of the problem (both SUVs, but also EVs which are generally heavier than ‘conventional’ cars), but regardless the council need to be more on it. 

You can use the fixmystreet app to report them (and other street maintenance issues). 

Edited by Earl Aelfheah

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • I think it's connected with the totem pole renovation celebrations They have passed now, but the notice has been there since then (at least that's when I first saw it - I passed it on the 484 and also took a photo!)
    • Labour was damned, no matter what it did, when it came to the budget. It loves go on about the black hole, but if Labour had had its way, we'd have been in lockdown for longer and the black hole would be even bigger.  Am I only the one who thinks it's time the NHS became revenue-generating? Not private, but charging small fees for GP appts, x-rays etc? People who don't turn up for GP and out-patient appointments should definitely be charged a cancellation fee. When I lived in Norway I got incredible medical treatment, including follow up appointments, drugs, x-rays, all for £200. I was more than happy to pay it and could afford to. For fairness, make it somehow means-tested.  I am sure there's a model in there somewhere that would be fair to everyone. It's time we stopped fetishising something that no longer works for patient or doctor.  As for major growth, it's a thing of the past, no matter where in the world you live, unless it's China. Or unless you want a Truss-style, totally de-regulated economy and love capitalism with a large C. 
    • If you read my post I expect a compromise with the raising of the cap on agricultural property so that far less 'ordinary' farmers do not get caught  Clarkson is simply a high profile land owner who is not in the business as a conventional farmer.  Here's a nice article that seems to explain things well  https://www.sustainweb.org/blogs/nov24-farming-budget-inheritance-tax-apr/ It's too early to speculate on 2029.  I expect that most of us who were pleased that Labour got in were not expecting anything radical. Whilst floating the idea of hitting those looking to minimise inheritance tax, including gifting, like fuel duty they also chickened put. I'm surprised that anyone could start touting for the Tories after 14 years of financial mismanagement and general incompetence. Surly not.  A very low bar for Labour but they must be well aware that there doesn't need to be much of a swing form Reform to overturn Labour's artificially large majority.  But even with a generally rabid right wing press, now was the opportunity to be much braver.
    • And I worry this Labour government with all of it's own goals and the tax increases is playing into Farage's hands. With Trump winning in the US, his BFF Farage is likely to benefit from strained relations between the US administration and the UK one. As Alastair Campbell said on a recent episode of The Rest is Politics who would not have wanted to be a fly on the wall of the first call between Angela Rayner and JD Vance....those two really are oil and water. Scary, scary times right now and there seems to be a lack of leadership and political nous within the government at a time when we really need it - there aren't many in the cabinet who you think will play well on the global stage.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...