tramps on whateley road........

[JohnL]

Curmudgeon Wrote:

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>

> Alcoholism is a disease, as is drug addiction, and

> I am not implying that they are either but those

> are the assumptions being made - some people are

> born with less advantages than others - fiscal and

> mental advantages in life and dumb luck are

> factors in where people are.

>

But how far does that go, to the boys who are anti-social on the bus

so forcing the bus to stop in the middle of the road and everyone get off, to the

people pre-disposed to anger management issues who happen to knock someone

senseless every Friday night, to the gangs who need help but instead pack guns.

[Sue]

The answer may not lie in prosecution but in addressing the root cause of the anti-social behaviour.

Which may require additional support, a change of medication (if they are on it or should be on it), or some other more positive solution - after all, unless they are being deliberately obnoxious, and why should they, prosecution is not going to resolve the situation in the long term, or indeed in the short term - is it?

:-S

[benjaminty]

As I understand it from a previous thread (now locked down), at least one of them (if not more) have some sort of learning difficulties.

Whilst this by no means excuses their behaviour, it does at least offer a reason.

There is a part of me that says that we should accept them for who they are and get on with things, whilst another part says that some sort of sensible action should be taken.

If, as people suggest, they are somehow moved on by the council then I'm not sure this addresses the problem even remotely. So they get moved on .. but where to? The same issue will exist but just somewhere else.

Hows about if they get moved to Melbourne Grove? or the Gardens? Or Elsie Road..... that will satisfy some and mortify others that will then be on the receiving end.

I for one would be happy if they could simply stay in their house and shut their front window just like most others but they obviously need to antagonise (or interact as best they can) to exist. It's likely that the only ones who would need to contend with them are their neighbours.... and yes I've met the neighbours and I feel for them.

So how to keep them indoors? Or am I over simplifying things?

[Scylla100]

It would probably be very difficult to evict them as I'm guessing they have secure tenency rights. I would image the police are very sympathetic and I've seen the police over there talking to them a number of times - all pretty much to no avail. All the community mental health support services in our borough have been cut to the bone (anybody keeping up with the cuts to the Maudsley?) so anybody thinking these people are going to get help from a mental health service are badly mistaken. There will be no community support help for them (or the people living by them).

Technically that is what should happen, they should have a housing officer and a community mental health nurse working with them in their home making sure they are coping with life in the community. It won't happen though.

They are breaking their tenency with their continued harrassment of people (I've seen them do it too) but one would have to gather a lot of evidence agaisnt them to take it forward with their housing association or the council. I'm assuming they aren't private tenents.

If anybody has corrections to my understanding of housing law and rights, do chime in here. My understanding is its unbelieveably difficult to effectively deal with nuisance neighboors in inner London boroughs. The best outcome I've come across is the nuisance neighbor was arrested and given a custodal sentence for something unrelated and with them gone, the harassment stopped.

[DaveR]

"Alcoholism is a disease, as is drug addiction"

Really, how do you catch it? Just because a type of behaviour can be 'treated' doesn't make it a disease, with the implication that the sufferer is as innocent as someone with the flu.

This is a very simplistic view of a complicated subject, and risks gving carte blanche to people to behave as irresponsibly as they want - maybe like the folks on Whateley Road

[Sue]

If enough pressure is brought to bear by enough people, something will be done - something appropriate, I mean.

There may be limited resources, but at the end of the day, managers etc want an easy life - if social services, the housing association, whoever, are bombarded with emails and letters, they will sort something just to get people off their backs.

With the problem we had, it took about a year, but eventually it was sorted - including maintaining good relations with the people causing the noise and disruption.

But yes, you do need to keep a record of the "incidents" - time, date and what happened - to build up a body of evidence so that someone somewhere will put it to the top of their in-tray ......

[sweetgirl]

to be honest with you the police are regular visitors to that house, i see ambulances there, i seen fire engines too!! the police are aware of whats going on. i've even heard them hurling abuse at our local pc plodd, i heard them once calling him a pig!!!!!!!!

the joke is that when they're argueing in their house, (because their windows are always wide open, come rain or shine!!!) i heard them shouting to one another, how one was gonna call the cops for the other.........

talking of mental health workers or other health service people, i don't think they can cope with them either. there were two young kids in that house before, looks to me like they've been put into care!!!!!! i haven't seen them for at least two yrs......

im sure the housing officer is aware of the problem & as i stated earlier in a thread we residents have had letters from the local police, (sometime last year) asking us if we have any problems with them......... the police themselves told me the council are trying to evict them! if anythings gonna get done, we need to work together edforum!!!!

[jim_the_chin]

but if you're going to evict them where are they going to go - next door to someone else?

people are people, some of them are crazy, loud and offensive (my next door neighbours included), but you can't go erecting personal middle-class exclusion zones and shoving the problem somewhere else. as I say, who are you going to put them next to?

They hardly sound like the Hells Angels either. it could be worse, you could be living next to a Tory or something.

[snorky]

Is this a private lynch mob or can anyone join in ?

[Scylla100]

Ya know, as to the question of "where are they going to go?"

I put an alarm on my house and a lock and I have other burglar proof methods to protect my home. What that means is the person thinking of breaking into my house will go somewhere else. I'm not going to stop all house break in's with my protections, they'll still happen. And I can't really take responsibility for someone's elses decisions. I can't think "oh dear, if I don't let them break into my house, they'll break into someone else's house and I'm responsible for that. Maybe if I let them break into my house someone else will be spared."

Same with a person breaking their tenency - the law is the law, you break it you face the consequences. It isn't the responsibility of the people of Whateley Road to take it on the chin for the rest of us.

[Horsebox]

snorky Wrote:

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> Is this a private lynch mob or can anyone join in

> ?

Snorky, see below. This is definitely a team effort.

sweetgirl Wrote:

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> if

> anythings gonna get done, we need to work together

> edforum!!!!

[sweetgirl]

snorky Wrote:

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> Is this a private lynch mob or can anyone join in

> ?

Snorky, see below. This is definitely a team effort

we, who live on or near whateley rd have to suffer. to be honest im particular about what my kids see & i can assure you that is definately not the sort of behaviour i want my kids to witness!! also, i don't want to be around this type of behaviour neither, it is too close to home for me.......

im sure if you were in my shoes you wouldn't be happy about it..........

[Cassius]

I do see your dilemma and to be honest I would be very unhappy if these people were my neighbours - however do you have a PRACTICAL solution other than throw them out - which to be honest I cannot see happening?

[sweetgirl]

well cassius, to be honest im not sure there are practical solutions for these guys! they have been here for yrs now, these people will never learn no matter how much you try & make them understand!

[jimmy two times]

I know nothing about these people, but I have to admit that I don't hear the word 'tramp' used much these days. I usually hear 'Winos','alkies', 'yobs', 'homeless', 'beggars', 'druggies', 'bums' etc etc. The people you describe don't sound like tramps to me. To me a 'tramp', or 'gentleman of the road', has a certain dignity about him (or her) and wouldn't be seen dead standing around hurling abuse at anyone. I don't think we should disgrace the good names of tramps.

[Cassius]

For those on the forum who also come from Devon - do you remember Smokey Joe - the 'gentleman of the road' who lived on the top of Telegraph Hill? I used to love passing him in the car as a child - he used to wave at all and sundry - I remember being very sad when he died.

[RosieH]

sweetgirl Wrote:

> im sure if you were in my shoes you wouldn't be

> happy about it..........

I agree sweetgirl, I really wouldn't be too happy about it. What has been done on a practical level in terms of contacting the council / police etc? I think the point that everyone's trying to get across is that a lynchmob shouldn't really be the first course of action, but maybe that's really not what you had in mind..?

Have all responsible citizen routes been exhausted? (I would have thought at the very least that these people deserve an ASBO, though I'm not sure of the efficacy in preventing their continuing to hurl abuse at all and sundry). Then if it's the case that they need to up their medication, something can be done. If it's the case that they're a bunch of arseholes, then I would suggest that the police are probably best placed to deal with things.

If it is a case of all the EDFers getting together, then it should be a concerted effort to make complaints to the council and the police and have something done about it. Running people out of town isn't really the done thing.

[Monkey]

I am now extremely irritated.

Stop whinging and get a grip. There are some proper channels (the police and the council) to complain about these people and this forum is not the place for it.

If you want to know what you can do to bring back the peace and quiet on Whateley Road, send me a private message.

[SteveT]

Monkey wrote: I am now extremely irritated.

Monkey when the police station is directly opposite the ne'er-do-wells on whateley road, it doesn't look too rosey for the neighbours does it?

If they can get away with such behaviour across the road from the nick.................

It would not surprise me if they were 'dealing' from there. The window was wide open it was raining and the male shouted something which I ignored, I was relieved it was raining and too wet for the stoop.

[ratty]

How long have these 2 been around? I used to live on LL quite nearby and never knew about them then (5 years ago). I might pop down and have a look if the weather's nice this weekend! :)

[sweetgirl]

do have a look ratty but dont stare too hard, you may just end up getting abused yourself??

[Keef]

I walk up Whateley Road all the time, and have never had a peep out of these people. Perhaps it's the looks of distain they get that wind them up...

If they are friends with Mr Whistle, then chances are they are known to mental health services, in which case people should be a bit more sympathetic. Have they ever actually hurt anyone? I know you might not want your kids to hear nasty language, but they'll hear it in any number of other places anyway.

[jimmy two times]

Maybe this could be turned into an East Dulwich tourist attraction? Guided safari style tours observing the local nutters on Whately road. Watching them in their natural habitat. Perhaps ann added lure would be to allow the tourists to feed them White stripe and Strongbow.

[????]

I'm off in serach of a pitchfork and flaming torch then I'll be with you

[Jeremy]

But Keef, what are the chances of a bunch of mentally ill guys all clubbing in and renting a house together? Doesn't sound very likely to me, unless this is actually some kind of special-ist accomodation?