Inconsiderate parking outside local schools

[malumbu]

Not discussing the CPZ here but how you discourage parents parking outside schools on double yellows, zig zags, often leaving engines running like they are a getaway car 

I don't see any value in giving abuse, not great outside a school, but I have gently asked when cycling past Goodrich, and Dulwich Village primaries.  We had a campaign to encourage walking, and leafleted illegal parking when our kids were at primary.  Well publicised with a police motorcyclist with us the first day.  On day two drivers would clock us, look sheepish and then park elsewhere.  We got a right mouthful from one parent.

But a couple of years later it had returned back to 'normal'.  The worst was parking on the pavement right outside the school gates.

You could have zero tolerance but there could be a backlash against the authorities, or school.  Police spending more time prosecuting busy parents rather than catching thieves etc.  I like name and shame generally considered too authoritarian  but I recall a school in Aberdeen having a montage of photos of parents consistently leaving engines running outside schools.

Credit Alleyns who took action when I have phoned them to tell them a coach is sitting their idling, with the driver sitting their with his feet up.  Most coaches turn their engines off.  And the teacher going into Dulwich Village Primary who agreed, and said it is the usual suspects day after day

[heartblock]

Happens every school day on East Dulwich Grove, along with some exceedingly dangerous U turns and of course adding to the school run traffic chaos. Unfortunately it is private school traffic, so huge SUVs, not local traffic and the drivers tend to be very, very entitled.

My solution, take all private schools into public ownership and kids go to schools local to them so they can walk/cycle.

[alice]

Goodrich school now has a school Street, no cars no parking

[Nigello]

? Dunstan’s is a school street so, quelle surprise, the usual suspects just sit on the DYLs on nearby roads instead, leaving a v short portion of Dunstan’s clear for a v short space of time. 
No care given to causing blind spots and hazardous obstructions just as long as little munchkin can get home in mum’s taxi. 
I’d like planters or trees in big pots placed on the DYLs. At least the school makes an effort now to deter the offenders by putting out portable bollards. 
I fear there’ll be an accident. 

[Rockets]

Clearly, despite the councils claims to the contrary in their decisions on the Dulwich Village CPZ, CPZs do nothing for school drop off issues with inconsiderate drop-off parking and unless you can stop people driving their children to school (with maybe school buses but look at the incessant moaning Clean Air Dulwich does about those at Alleyn's - you can never please some people) then inconsiderate drop-offs are going to have to be something we live with. School streets are great but invariably move the problem to the next closest street.

 

Nigello is right, this issue impacts private and state schools in equal measure - to their point just go spend some time around Goodrich around drop off time!

[Penguin68]

I'm afraid it is quite likely that this state of affairs will exacerbate, as more secondary schools are forced to close with falling school rolls meaning that more children will have to travel further, and are more likely therefore to get parental lifts. Particularly if bus services are truncated or made less frequent with TFL under increasing financial pressures and with the lack of interest in transport South of the River very apparent in City Hall. Additionally even 25 years or so ago children travelling by bus to my children's school were on occasion attacked by children attending a rival school which shared a bus route - teenage (and younger) violence has hardly dissipated (indeed it's grown) over that time. Which also drives parental lift giving. Better a car to school than an ambulance home.

[malumbu]

My point was not about CPZs but what I consider selfish behaviour.  If you must drive your child to school then please find somewhere appropriate to park.  Ideally parents would do this because they are good citizens.  Sadly some don't care.  I don't buy into many excuses.  

[Spartacus]

It's been going on all over for years, hardly new.  

It is selfish behaviour, but parents are often time constrained and sometimes have multiple drop offs /pick ups when kids are in different schools. 

Whilst not an excuse, I can see why they do it. 

Not really sure what the answer is,  maybe retaining and more local schools so there is a school within walking distance ? 

Maybe like America, a dedicated school bus and no local drop off by cars.

But what ever solution is found, parents will always have time constraints that will effect their behaviour 🤔 

[Nigello]

Parents can also get up earlier and/or let children take the bus or cycle or walk. It’s a choice, possibly hard to swallow, but still a choice. 

[Rockets]

Human behaviour, especially that of a selfish nature, is often the very last thing to change...

[malumbu]

I'm not sure if any research that shows that parents parking outside schools on double yellows because of time constraints.  That may be an assumption but it would be useful to quantify.  Why do you park there?  (a) Because I have a complex journey with multiple stops offs (b) because it is nearer.  Maybe I should ask the next person doing it rather than telling them the rules don't apply to them.  

The majority of parents don't do this 

Not a scientific study but a mate in Memphis would drop his child off at a layby close to school gates where there was a person meeting the kids.  Apparently most of the white professional parents did this whilst the often less wealthy non-white kids used to bus.  I'll find out how the child got to high school before they passed their test at 16 and no doubt drove.  I expect there is a massive variation across the US, but the concept of the school bus is a good one.  I got coached to my secondary school, the closest one, being almost 3 miles away.  I can't remember anyone being driven in by parents, but this was last century.

 

[Spartacus]

[malumbu]

I appreciate the message and humour, but it should not be aimed just at mothers. 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

5 minutes ago, malumbu said:

I appreciate the message and humour, but it should not be aimed just at mothers. 

Yeah, the misogyny is off the mark. Possibly if more men cared for kids and took the lead on their children's education you'd see more inconsiderate school run dads.

Edited March 9, 2024 by Dogkennelhillbilly

[sweetgirl]

Have you seen Harris primary East Dulwich!

they park however they feel to then you have the p13 buses fighting to get through 

even the coach’s they hire for school trips have no consideration!

the block the bus stop so people cannot get on the bus safely……

[Nigello]

Then speak to the headmaster or headmistress and ask them to monitor it. Also, CC Helen Hayes MP. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

The post Dulwich LTN school survey reported levels of walking and cycling up by 26% and a drop of 26% of use of car to travel to school. We know the answers - kids will walk and cycle to school (and their parents will let them) if they feel it is safe - i.e. if there are quieter routes, segregated bike routes and places to safely cross the road. We should also have more school streets, completely closed to traffic imo. More generally, there needs to be more done to tackle car bloat - the ever increasing size of high bonnet SUVs is incredibly dangerous (8X more likely to kill or seriously injure a child in a collision than a 'standard' car), as well as their adding to congestion and pollution.

[Rockets]

Earl, whose research was it that came to that conclusion?

If that is the case does it not negate the council's message that they need to force CPZs on the residents of Calton and Townley (against their will) to counter school drop off issues? Surely if the LTNs delivered such great results then the CPZ is not needed to combat that particular issue?

[Earl Aelfheah]

It came from a school surveys undertaken by Southwark.

With regards CPZ around schools to further reduce school drop offs - It seems to make sense to me. Kind of depends whether you think an increase in the number of kids walking and cycling to school is a sign to stop making improvements. 

Personally I think you need a bit of stick and carrot - making it both easier / safer for kids to walk and cycle, and more difficult for people to drive and park outside of schools. 

[Rockets]

Do you have the link to the schools survey I have not seen it - it's not the one Aldred and Goodman did is it?

 

I agree you need a mix but I do sense the council is just using the school challenges as an excuse to shoe horn the CPZs in and they will have zero impact on the number of people dropping their kids off - after all most parents don't park for long when dropping the kids off, they tend to do rapid demounts.

[malumbu]

As for my original post, it doesn't seem relevant whether a parent is parking for 20 seconds or 20 minutes, if they are doing this inconsiderately, on zig zags, yellow lines, on pavements, by school gates, across drives. And then some will do three point turns in the street just to add to the danger.

I was working in Lambeth yesterday, not only restrictions on some of the streets by schools, but two, yes two, enforcement officers on push bikes.  I chatted to them, and one story is that a parent was so angry when the restriction was introduced they reversed without looking and crashed into another car.  A single anecdote not a scientific study.

Article on breakfast this morning about a new school street in Kent, schools says great, Councillor says great, local resident says great, grandparent in car angry, resident a few streets away upset as inconsiderate parents now park across their drive.  Usual range of views

[Pugwash]

Etherow Street will become a school street soon. Will affect St. Anthony's  especially since they have a wide catchment area and children are dropped off by parents on their way to work. Inconsiderate parking has always been a problem - my daughter attended there in the late 1980s/early 90s. Members of the PTA took turns in trying to monitor the situation and were frequently verbally abused. 

[Rockets]

How will that work with the buses that use Etherow?

[Pugwash]

Buses, emergency vehicles and a couple of other categories will be exempt. Cyclists will continue to be able to use the street both ways.

[Rockets]

Ah so it is not a physical school street closure - just camera/camera car enforced? It just always seems like there is a constant flow of buses using the street so was wondering what the pans was when the school pulled the school street barricades across it but clearly not an issue!