what is going on with permit charges from southwark council?

[trinidad]

Hi all,

just received my yearly email to renew my car permit, which is a complete waist of money. It usually costs £135.00 for the year. 

This year, the council has increased my parking permit by £100, disgusting, and right in the middle when many people are struggling with the cost of living:

Permit duration and cost

1 Month - £ 27.90

3 Month - £ 64.60

6 Month - £ 122.40

12 Month - £ 225.00

Why has the council done this?

Resident parking permit - Southwark Council

 

[Peckhampam]

They are doing it because the government has been decreasing their budget year on year but the council still has to deliver services.  They have to get money somehow.

I'm sure you know that but it bears repeating again and again.

Edited March 4, 2024 by Peckhampam

[Spartacus]

As I understood the CPZ rules for implementation, permits should cover the cost of administration for the scheme and not generate revenue for a council. 

Therefore can Southwark truly claim that it costs £225 each time to register, issue and maintain a list of active permits ? Remember on top of that they also get fines for vehicles incorrectly parked in a CPZ. 

Sadly, a £100 increase does raise the question of what exactly is their motivation for wanting a Borough wide CPZ and are they bending the rules on revenue by doing it ? 🤔 

[HeadNun]

  On 04/03/2024 at 11:38, Spartacus said:

As I understood the CPZ rules for implementation, permits should cover the cost of administration for the scheme and not generate revenue for a council. 

Therefore can Southwark truly claim that it costs £225 each time to register, issue and maintain a list of active permits ? Remember on top of that they also get fines for vehicles incorrectly parked in a CPZ. 

Sadly, a £100 increase does raise the question of what exactly is their motivation for wanting a Borough wide CPZ and are they bending the rules on revenue by doing it ? 🤔 

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It's very hard not to be suspicious. 

[trinidad]

  On 04/03/2024 at 11:10, Peckhampam said:

They are doing it because the government has been decreasing their budget year on year but the council still has to deliver services.  They have to get money somehow.

I'm sure you know that but it bears repeating again and again.

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I do hear you, local government budgets are constantly being reduced by central government, but as the previous person said, any revenue associated with parking cant be used for other things, other than parking related schemes.   

[Rockets]

Can't be used....yet...I wonder if they know that with a Labour victory at the election the rules may change opening the floodgates for councils to raise funds by "any means necessary" and Southwark are getting their revenue grab in early with this and things (that the council considers a sign of wealth) like the brown bin charges - all of which are increasingly massively year-on-year.

[Spartacus]

If the rules do change and councils try and grab even more then I predict a poll tax riot 

[mrwb]

The council is struggling with inflation as well. It's really as simple as that. 

You wonder why they want to roll out the CPZ everywhere? Even in the "gated communities" like court lane where there are barely any cars thanks to the LTNs already.

Money, money, money. 

[ianr]

The full list (as per OP's link) is as follows:

Resident permit for ULEZ-compliant vehicles:

• £27.90  - 1 month
• £64.60 - 3 months
• £122.40 - 6 months
• £225 - 12 months

Resident permit for diesel non-ULEZ compliant vehicles

• £31.60  - 1 month
• £81 - 3 months
• £155 - 6 months
• £300 - 12 months

Discounted resident permits

• motorbikes and mopeds - £32 (12 months)
• hybrid vehicles - £150 (12 months)
• electric vehicles - £75 (12 months)
• disabled badge holder’s vehicles - £30 (12 months)

There's a lot to be found on the web about comparative charges and methods of charging.  One I've looked at, data said to be correct as of 6 July 2023, gives Southwark 'average cost' as £263, which I surmise is probably got as the mean of the £225 and £300 costs quoted above: https://www.driving.org/new-study-reveals-the-areas-in-the-uk-that-charge-the-most-for-a-parking-permit/.  Lambeth have just closed a consultation on proposed changes to charging criteria:  https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/consultations/have-your-say-changes-parking-charges-2024.

[trinidad]

It is always the motorist, which is the cash cow. From road tax, road charges, parking charges, penalty charges. I know the council is struggling, so a 10 - 15 pound increase, fine, but £100.00???? just like the previous person mentioned - the brown bins. In the introduction year, the brown bin cost only £25.00. The coast year it cost £30.00. The year after that, it went up to £40.00. The year after that, it went up to a whooping £80.00, god knows what it is now??? result  - everyone has no brown bins, and put there garden waste in the household waste which costs the council more to get rid of!!

 

We had the opportunity to punish the labor administrator last time, but we did not. 

[first mate]

What would be refreshing is if they could simply tell the truth; they desperately need money; some bad decisions had been made in the past; in future they will dump the vanity projects and focus on the basics and essentials- none of those are 'sexy' and probably quite dull for those of the councillors that are career politicians,  but dull and dutiful is what we need.

[Penguin68]

The problem they face is that some types of charge can only actually be levied to meet costs, not for revenue generation - so if they admitted the truth they would possibly be penalised, or the charges disallowed. They are between a rock and a hard place - but of course by lying and dissimulating (when you might argue they 'have to') they allow that mind-set to take-over how they generally  treat us - so lying and dissimulation becomes their default. As we have seen. 

[Rockets]

Parking permit charges need to go up to fund vanity projects like the DV junction redesign that the majority of people (who responded to the consultation) don't want but meantime things like cycle hangers and better street lighting needs to be Crowdfunded because the council "doesn't have any money"....go figure....

[sandyman]

  On 06/03/2024 at 21:37, trinidad said:

It is always the motorist, which is the cash cow. From road tax, road charges, parking charges, penalty charges. I know the council is struggling, so a 10 - 15 pound increase, fine, but £100.00???? just like the previous person mentioned - the brown bins. In the introduction year, the brown bin cost only £25.00. The coast year it cost £30.00. The year after that, it went up to £40.00. The year after that, it went up to a whooping £80.00, god knows what it is now??? result  - everyone has no brown bins, and put there garden waste in the household waste which costs the council more to get rid of!!

 

We had the opportunity to punish the labor administrator last time, but we did not. 

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Charges seem to be ramping up everywhere. I had a look at my Thames Water bill history back to 2018 recently. It used to go up £20 - £30 a year - in 2022 it up £50 and in 2023 it went up £80. I know we've had inflation but it still feels like they are taking the piss. i imagine even when inflation comes down it will still be going up by just as much or even more.

[Sue]

  On 07/03/2024 at 10:10, sandyman said:

Charges seem to be ramping up everywhere. I had a look at my Thames Water bill history back to 2018 recently. It used to go up £20 - £30 a year - in 2022 it up £50 and in 2023 it went up £80. I know we've had inflation but it still feels like they are taking the piss. i imagine even when inflation comes down it will still be going up by just as much or even more.

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To be fair, and I know that's hard to be where Thames Water are involved, there are a lot of very old (? Victorian?) sewers etc which constantly leak and need replacing.

OTOH, how much of our money is being used for that, and how much is going to shareholders? (I'm assuming TW is privatised, as virtually every effing public service has been, with predictable results 😡)

[Penguin68]

  On 07/03/2024 at 10:10, sandyman said:

I know we've had inflation but it still feels like they are taking the piss.

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And pumping it straight back out into the rivers...

[teddyboy23]

Not Southwark but lambeth in camberwell. Last year parking permits went up by a £100 minium a year .council rents went up by £77 aweek £308 extra amonth.this was mostly heating costs . Which are in with the rent .family member has received this year's rent charges gone up by£9 aweek. But £32 has been knocked off the heating charge.which will help abit . Parking permits waiting to here😟

[trinidad]

as parking charges can only be spent on parking, why has the council increased its yearly parking charge by a £100.00? 

[Rockets]

Parking charges can be spent on anything to do with roads (so not just parking). I read somewhere recently that because Southwark has failed in its attempts to roll out a borough-wide CPZ they have a funding hole and one of the new cycleways through Southwark cannot be completed as a result with the suggestion that they were writing cheques for projects without the funding secured.

[northernmonkey]

  On 14/03/2024 at 08:51, Rockets said:

 I read somewhere recently that because Southwark has failed in its attempts to roll out a borough-wide CPZ they have a funding hole and one of the new cycleways through Southwark cannot be completed as a result with the suggestion that they were writing cheques for projects without the funding secured.

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Where did  you read this Rockets - somewhere factual or some Tory leaflet?   Its a classic misinformation spreading tactic ' i saw somewhere' - but vague, so it plants the idea in someones mind. 

[Rockets]

Northern - rest assured, when I find it again you will be the first to know and then I am sure you will be big enough to issue a grovelling apology!!! 😉 

[northernmonkey]

Interesting that you thought you'd post about it, and came back to essentially snipe, yet still no source for your vague comment.  Should probably clarify that if you saw it on a One Dulwich mailing or a Tory leaflet that doesn't count.  

It is entirely possible / probable that the borough wide CPZ roll back will mean adjusting income projections, but this doesn't mean that a specific project is unable to be completed. 

[Rockets]

No but that was the suggestion. Given your role as part of the cycle lobby are you aware of any cycleways that have been paused in Southwark?

 

I can assure you I didn't read it in a One Dulwich post or Tory leaflet and nor am I making it up. 

 

Glad you are acknowledging that the council could well have had to reign back certain projects because their revenue projection changed due to their inability to roll-out borough-wide CPZs. They clearly thought the CPZ was a shoe-in because they signed the contract with APCOA on the basis of them rolling it out - again another item that will be causing a deficit elsewhere now it isn't recouping the revenue.

 

It does look like they were spending money on a promise and now have a funding issue as a result.

Edited March 15, 2024 by Rockets

[trinidad]

If the council is raising all these funds to fix the roads, why are the roads in the borough so terrible? I live in Copleston road. The strictions are from 9am - 11am Monday to Friday. I did not want a CPZ on my road, like most people, but the council false this money making scheme on us a few years back because most people said they would want a cpz if one was placed next to where they lived (word playing, but somewhat dishonest). I pay £235.00 for a two hour restriction. Is there any evidence of more parking available? are there less cars parking on my road? do i have more choice of where i park on my road? can i park outside my home? no to none of these answers. I dont understand why the council is allowed to get away with these things. The elections are due soon.  

[Spartacus]

That's a good point Trinidad 

Roads across the Borough seem to have the worst potholes in years despite it being a mild winter so the council can't blame it on freezing and thawing damage. 

Why hasn't the extra cash generated through CPZs and LTNs been used to repair the roads? 

With the amount of revenue raised, which should be reserved for road based projects, one would almost expect tje streets to be paved with gold 🤣 

Therefore why are the potholes worse thos year which is a danger for motorists and cyclists alike ?