Southwark Council crowdfunding for green projects

[Sue]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/28/cash-strapped-london-council-starts-crowdfunding-drive-to-pay-for-green-upgrades

Edited February 28 by Sue

[IlonaM]

Just seen the article as well. I got an email from Southwark about it yesterday! Interesting way of funding.

[Angelina]

I do - through extortionate Council Tax and income tax - the government has the highest taxable income/ revenue since WW2 and has increased debt at an astounding rate of £ millions per day.

Where is that money going - and why do they now have to crowd fund - that's outrageous.

[Sue]

18 minutes ago, Angelina said:

I do - through extortionate Council Tax and income tax - the government has the highest taxable income/ revenue since WW2 and has increased debt at an astounding rate of £ millions per day.

Where is that money going - and why do they now have to crowd fund - that's outrageous.

Sorry I don't understand? You do what?

The government has greatly cut council funding. Therefore in order to try to continue local public services, councils have to get their money from somewhere, either by increasing council tax or by initiatives like this one.

Also, the Tories cut income tax rates decades ago  in order to get elected, and no party is now going to put them back up again, with the effects on such things as the NHS and schools which we can see all around us.

The whole infrastructure of this country is falling apart.

Edited February 28 by Sue

[Rockets]

Can anyone explain to me why Southwark needs money for cycle hangers and street lighting when they are getting millions of extra revenue for roads and infrastructure from the LTN cameras? They can buy that stuff with that money as it would be considered roads infrastructure would it not?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by Rockets

[ianr]

Is there a word for crowdfunding-other-than through-donations?  They seem to be seeking fixed term loans, probably at a rate slightly less expensive for them than going elsewhere.  But the investors will have the incentive of knowing that it's specifically to aid the funding of obviously socially useful targets; though apparently at a potential risk, if say our 'extortionate' borough goes bankrupt.  But do read the Ts & Cs carefully to know precisely what the provisions are before investing.  https://www.abundanceinvestment.com/our-investments/councils

[Penguin68]

Back in the 1970s it was possible to buy council debt (fixed term bonds) sometimes for specific purposes, such as house building- this seems to follow a similar course, but avoiding the City costs of raising money - but also not backed by any collateral. The devil is in the detail, but the key question that needs to be asked is in what order creditors would be paid in the case of bankruptcy or the council equivalent. Calling it 'crowd funding' might suggest pretty low down that order. The suggested return again - when will that be paid? The later, the more risky. (My council bonds paid out at the end of the bond period, if I recall). It appears from the attached link that it may be paid out annually (good) and it may be possible to set it up within an ISA wrapper (assuming you have remaining ISA headroom this tax year). Which is also good. But the suggestion that Councils have by law to have balanced budgets is theoretically true, but in practice in many recent cases hasn't happened. So they could still default on the capital invested, which won't be paid out until the end of the term. My council bonds could be traded, but I suspect that will not be true of this investment - in which case you must be sure you can do without the capital sum for the investment term. Unless you are just punting a few pounds you could afford to lose  I would strongly suggest getting professional financial advice before entering this market

[Chick]

Maybe they could get some cash back from ACPOA

[tiddles]

spend less on the endless consultations (which are then ignored)

I totally get that the council's have had their funding slashed but it just seems weird that there are so many vanity projects versus real probems with solutions. I spent today in traffic jams (sorry but I am self employed whizzing around various clients carrying files) I cannot see how stationary traffic on parts of the south circular, along brockwell park and in dulwich village are helping to combat polution. Sort the pot holes on Dog Kennel Hill bus/bike lane before someone comes acropper

[tomskip]

Good luck to them. I should think anyone inclined to crowd fund in this borough has had their fingers stung by the non-starter projects of the proposed Lido at Peckham Rye and a green walkway following the train route from Peckham Rye? (memory a bit hazy) which have resulted in nothing. 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

tbf - those were not council projects, were they?

[Spartacus]

Curious question 

But in a mayoral election year, if southwark, a Labour Council, does go for maximum council tax rise, how will that impact Sadiqs share of Southwarks mayoral vote ? 

Obviously something he will be keen to see not happening.  Wonder if pressure will be put on London labour councils to keep the rises low this year 🤔 

Edited February 28 by Spartacus

[sally buying]

1 hour ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

tbf - those were not council projects, were they?

If I remember Southwark Council donated quite a large sum to both.

 

[alice]

I hope that’s not true

[spider69]

I seem to remember this is true. If I  recall, may be old age is now kicking in, it was £25,000.oo per project

Was covered on the forum. Perhaps someone could check yes or no.

Checked old Peckham Lido Forum messages, words used were Southwark pledged £10,000.00. 

 

Do not have the time to check Coal Line

[alice]

Then Southwark is more messed up than I’d thought. 

[Jules-and-Boo]

Southwark? Or the Government?

[alice]

Yes, government funding has been stripped to the bone, but some of the funding decisions southwark  makes are not the priorities I would hope for

[spider69]

Checked old Peckham Lido Forum messages, words used were Southwark pledged £10,000.00. 

 

Do not have the time to check Coal Line

Southwark Council announces its support for the Peckham Coal Line with £10,000 contribution

by peckhampeculiar

Southwark Council has offered its backing to the Peckham Coal Line, with a £10,000 contribution to the project. 

 

Peckham Lido

18 July 2016  · 

A huge £10k pledge from Southwark Council is a great boost, but we still need over £6k in the next 14days to hit our target. We're not there yet! Please keep pledging and sharing the crowdfunding page:

https://www.spacehive.com/peckham-lido

Here is a piece in The Southwark News who have been really fantastic at following the campaign.

http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/council/

[Rockets]

And I still can't work out why they need Crowdfunding for cycle hangers and street lights when the transport coffers are swelling with LTN fine money and have been showing surplus/profit growth for a while since they went in.

 

The council might want to try and pin this all on central government but I do think scrutiny on some of their frivolous spending might also be required - they did, after all, pay APCOA £11.5m to police CPZs that aren't being installed now....bit hard to play the woe is us card when things like that have happened on your watch.....but hey, there's a mayoral/general election coming so I am sure we will lots more of this stuff from Labour run councils over the next few months.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

The Peckham Coal Line proposals (which frankly I had forgotten the details of, and never knew the council had made any contribution toward) were an interesting idea worth exploring at the time. A £10k contribution to a feasibility study that was mostly paid by private donations is pretty good value.

Obviously those struck by #southwarkderangementsyndrome will say this thing the council did 8 years ago is literally the end of Western civilisation.

https://www.peckhamcoalline.org/blog/feasibility-study-1-year-on

[spider69]

Could the £20,000.00 have been used to keep existing projects open and not pie in the sky super ideas by newbys. Coal line and Lido.

If it was a a project funded by private donations Southwark should not contribute. They exist to fund existing services.

 

[Sue]

1 hour ago, spider69 said:

Could the £20,000.00 have been used to keep existing projects open and not pie in the sky super ideas by newbys. Coal line and Lido.

If it was a a project funded by private donations Southwark should not contribute. They exist to fund existing services.

 

Those projects were both great ideas which had they been assessed as feasible would have been wonderful assets for the whole community.

I think it was reasonable for the council to contribute towards feasibility studies.

The amounts contributed were not enormous in the great scheme of things.

I'm sure people wouldn't be grumbling about them now if the projects had gone ahead.

[Rockets]

Is anyone happy they have spent £11m on a contract with APCOA for parking enforcement based on a CPZ rollout that they have since had to U-turn on - that doesn't seem to be a smart investment of tax-payers money? And then to claim they need crowd-funding to fund things like bike hangers and street lighting doesn't seem to be that smart - perhaps they are hoping the electorate have short memories....

[Charles Martel]

Southwark is not a poor area where problems with council finances are obviously linked to a low, and declining, council tax base. In the last 20 years or so billions upon billions upon billions of pounds of investment have poured into Southwark to transform areas that were derelict in the 80s and 90s into acres and acres of “luxury” flats. The council tax base in Southwark must have been vastly expanded by these developments. In addition the population of Southwark has a much higher proportion of working age adults with a much higher proportion of degree educated professional and managerial workers than average. Their disposable income supports numerous businesses all paying the council business rates. Now we are being asked to believe that despite all of this obvious income Southwark is “cash strapped”.

Well I do not believe it. I think that when these two headlines are put side by side it is quite obvious that profligate council spending on activist led projects is a major part of the problem.

Perhaps it would have been better to spend the money they had on the services they are now crowdfunding for rather than trying to finance an anti-car cultural revolution with an unlawful borough-wide cpz. Their flagship ”Streets for People” policy planned to spend public money on widening the pavements and putting benches every 100m across the borough. Whose priorities are these? Even if Southwark council had struck gold in Dulwich park those ideas should still have come a long way behind funding basic services.

You could get a 4.6% return from a cash ISA with near zero risk or you could give your money to councillor McAsh and his merry band of activists to spend as they please