Ivydale School to Expand

[mikeb]

Separate question, but does anyone know what is to become of the old nursery site on Nunhead Green? Presume someone has considered it as site for a primary school

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Mike, this is to become the new Nunhead Community Centre plus housing. There is quite alot of info on it on the secentral.co.uk in the Nunhead section.

Renata

[James Barber]

What depressing news.

Both council and external educational improvement managers have told me that the ideal size of a primary school is two or three forms of entry per year. On this advice expanding Ivydale to four forms of entry is at best a poor decision that will affect the live chances of 120 children in each year group.

Clearly a better decision would be a new school.

A new school would also have the merit of attracting 100% new capital funds to the area - so we're losing out by at least ?4.5M.

[DenmotherSmith]

Renata/James Can you shed any light?

In Southwark's School place Strategy Update it states

"7. This shows that whilst the proposed overall number of additional places will meet

the forecast demand, the distribution of places indicates pressure in the north of

the borough. Conversely there are sufficient to excess places in the south with

the addition of a 2FE Harris primary free school in Nunhead recently approved by

the Department for Education to open in September 2015."

What is the proposed site for the Harris Free School Nunhead? And won't the free school and the expansion of Ivydale lead to an increases in places beyond demand, thus creating future funding issues for both schools if they are undersubscribed due to demand being in the north of the borough? Surely a free school or an expansion is needed not both?

[buggie]

> What depressing news.

>

> Both council and external educational improvement

> managers have told me that the ideal size of a

> primary school is two or three forms of entry per

> year. On this advice expanding Ivydale to four

> forms of entry is at best a poor decision that

> will affect the live chances of 120 children in

> each year group.

>

> Clearly a better decision would be a new school.

>

> A new school would also have the merit of

> attracting 100% new capital funds to the area - so

> we're losing out by at least ?4.5M.

But with this expansion being on a 2nd site which is over 100yrds away, it will surely be more like two schools than one big school - my (albeit uneducated) guess would be that they split into an infants & a juniors (thus minimising movement between the sites during the day for children) which in my mind is v different to the picture I feel your painting.

Ivydale is my local school & find the constant sniping from you about how awful it will be for the children really sad. As I've said on here before, the Harris primary school results/high league table position driven mission statement unsettles me as it sounds more like a learning factory than an environment for young children. I've seen Ivydale as it currently is & while it is obviously in need of more space, I really liked the school & how happy and proud of the school the children are - it felt much more holistic than just going for league table placings.

Given the financial hardship facing the country (due to the coalition that your party is part of) I would have thought that being able to save some money would be a positive & guess that a chunk of it would be due to Ivydale already having the infrastructure to run a school & expanding this won't be as expensive as another organisation having to start from scratch.

[Mugglesworth]

James

I understand that Ivydale School engaged an independent education specialist to assess all available research into whether there was an "ideal size" for a primary school. The conclusion was that there is no such thing. There are outstanding large primary schools and inadequate small primary schools, with other factors such as quality of leadership and school ethos determining school success. The concept of an "ideal size" is largely down to personal prejudice. It is worth noting that, compared with the UK average, Ivydale is already a large primary school and yet children and parents praise its caring and supportive nature.

[uncleglen]

This is my 20th year teaching secondary students and whatever has been going on in primary schools is not working properly as there are too many students coming through who cannot read well enough to access secondary curriculum material, and even though they may be able to recite their times tables they cannot read nor understand the maths questions in order to utilise this skill.

A flashy building does not a school make!

[Mattsoper]

I was surprised to find an early consultation on the Ivydale expansion taking place at The Ivy House pub last night and it seems this is a lot further along than most local people realised. I don't think this event was very widely advertised as I live a couple of hundred metres from the Newlands Academy and I didn't get a letter about it.

In short, an application to demolish Bredinghurst House and the terraced houses on the Inverton Road side of the site has already been submitted and initial drawings of how the site might be used were on display.

If you have any concerns about these plans then now is the time to get in touch with Southwark as they're pushing this through at quite a speed.

[lizbells6]

I live nearby too and am furious that I had to find out about this meeting from the EDF after it had happened. How did people who attended know about it? There was no local publicity. I had assumed the school would use the existing buildings - I can't believe those beautiful old houses are going to be demolished. Do you have any more info? There is zero on the Southwark website.

[jamesblastland]

Hi there - found the link below on the school site, sorry wasn't sure how to attach the newsletter but says you can contact the school office to speak to Adele Audin (lead for expansion).

http://www.ivydale.southwark.sch.uk/newsletters.asp

Hope that helps,

James

[lizbells6]

Thanks James. I'll get in touch with her, although this info should be available from Southwark for all local residents, not just Ivydale parents. My children left Ivydale quite a while ago.

I've also contacted our local councillor.

[Mattsoper]

A letter about the consultation was sent to some houses but it must have been within a very small radius as I didn't receive one. I only found out because I happened to be in The Ivy House on the evening the consultation was held and overheard people talking about it.

There are lots of things to consider in the plans for a new school on this site, not least the suitability of having two schools of a very different nature right next to each other on what is actually a fairly small plot of land. Sharing facilities such as the playground is out of the question so the Ivydale expansion will need its own outside areas, which, according to the proposals I saw, means it'll need the whole of the eastern side of the site and the existing buildings won't be retained.

As for the old buildings (which I would love to see kept), the outlook is pretty bleak. Because the site is an educational one, the buildings would need to be used for school purposes - and the school says they can't use them as the rooms are too small, plus I was told by a representative from the company doing the demolition works that repairs costing around ?100,000 need to be carried out on Bredinghurst House alone. I was also told some time ago that converting the buildings to housing would require Secretary of State approval, which we can probably assume is never going be given even if it were to be sought in the first place.

That said, I think it's worth anyone who cares about these buildings letting Southwark know their opinions as you never know where it might lead.

[NunheadRising]

What is the catchment area for the school?

[buggie]

IIRC, the original idea for this land after Newlands Ac was built was for it to be sold for housing development, which I doubt would've used the existing buildings (which are in what kind of condition?).

The catchment for Ivydale is around 350m (for non-sibling place), think Cheltenham Rd/Benchley Gdns are the southern border, even with the cemetery, don't think Linden Grove is in catchment to the north.

The school is in s position where it could've bulged this year but for no room being available. With the baby boom/increased number of families staying local in the last few years, this leaves much of Nunhead in a black hole places wise.

[Renata Hamvas]

There are many schools serving the Nunhead area, Ivydale, Hollydale, John Donne, Rye Oak, St Mary Magdalene, St Francesca Cabrini and Lewisham Schools Turnham/Haberdasher's Askes/Edmund Waller for those living near the border with Lewisham. Some of these were undersubscribed last year. Ivydale had a last place distance offered in the first round of 386 metres, 30 out of 60 places being offered on distance (the rest were siblings/SEN etc). The difficult area has been the area near Cheltenham Road, this area is close to the Stuart Road site so will be served by expanded Ivydale. The area towards Linden Grove, is closer to Rye Oak or Hollydale depending on the exact location.

Renata

[NunheadRising]

Thanks for the info according to google map we are .2mile away which is about 320 metres, i'll get my measuring tape out lol

[NunheadRising]

Thanks for the response. We are on Fernholme Road Road Just off of Ivydale. Very close to the school, Maybe i'll get my tape measure out to check the distance, but looking at maps online

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi NunheadRising,

the distances are as the crow flies; there are internet tools that can give you an estimate from your postcode to the school; not as accurate as the Council's measurements, but it will give you an idea. Be aware that last place distance offers are not catchments and vary from year to year. From Fernholme you are a similar distance to Ivydale and Turnham, also not far from Beecroft Garden, I would also suggest looking at Hollydale, St Francesca Cabrini and Edmund Waller. Look at all your local schools and then put 6 in your true order of preference. I have mentioned a mix of Southwark and Lewisham schools as, in your case you are close to the border with Lewisham. Look at the Southwark website for information on the last place distance offers for Southwark Schools (or in the hard copy of "Starting Primary School"), likewise for Lewisham.

Renata

[NunheadRising]

Thanks Renata we're a couple of years off having to sort it out but great information many thanks

[theratprincess]

Our house was measured at 455m from Ivydale and we were 2nd on the waiting list on offers day. We got offered a place about 4 weeks later. Judging by who we see walking home from school, I think we might be one of the furthest families in reception, at least on the Southern end.

Incidentally, we were told that the furthest distance on offers day was 445m but the official figure that came out later was the 386m that Renata has quoted. No idea which of the figures is correct, but wouldn't trust Southwark - they were a bit of shambles.

[lameduck]

It is really sad to pull these magnificent buildings down

the large house was Dunns the gents outfitters private house.

not sure who lived in the the semi's on site

It shows the family living there in the 1881 census

I believe the 4 semi detached houses [ one is missing ] on Sartor road were his workers cottages.

hence Sartor [sartorial ] They are probably the oldest houses up here.

It was left to the council and was an orphanage before the war.

a paint store and storage area during the war.

and a private boys boarding school after, In the 1950-60s the lawn and gardens were manicured

and they grew flowers which sold in the local shops

I am dreading its demolition, such a sad loss

[nunheadbelle]

Yes, they were lovely buildings and beautiful grounds. I used to go there when they held jumble sales.

Half the grounds have gone to build the new school next door (Newlands) which looks very modern and out of character with the surrounding houses and it seems the remainder of the buildings will be pulled down to make way for the new Ivydale school. I had hoped that they would just refurbish the old school building but it obviously has proved not to be viable.

lameduck Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It is really sad to pull these magnificent

> buildings down

> the large house was Dunns the gents outfitters

> private house.

> not sure who lived in the the semi's on site

> It shows the family living there in the 1881

> census

> I believe the 4 semi detached houses [ one is

> missing ] on Sartor road were his workers

> cottages.

> hence Sartor They are probably the oldest houses

> up here.

> It was left to the council and was an orphanage

> before the war.

> a paint store and storage area during the war.

> and a private boys boarding school after, In the

> 1950-60s the lawn and gardens were manicured

> and they grew flowers which sold in the local

> shops

> I am dreading its demolition, such a sad loss

[Mattsoper]

Here's an aerial shot of the Bredinghurst School site before the Newlands Academy was built. The people who've been living in the old buildings on the eastern side of the site will be moving out in mid-November ahead of the demolition (though no dates have been confirmed for that yet).

[lameduck]

Hi Matt

what year was that picture taken ? I notice the church hall has been burnt down / demolished

and the building on the corner of Inverton and Ivydale roads does not appear to be built

lynne

[Mattsoper]

I'm guessing it's around 2008 as the flats on the corner of Ivydale and Inverton Road went up quite a few years ago now. The derelict building on the eastern side of Inverton Road was in that state when I moved here in 2007 and there were two prefabs just to the south of it, which have now all been replaced by terraced housing.