Ivydale School to Expand

[Renata Hamvas]

Ivydale school has bulged for the last two years. If it hadn't bulged this year, the last place offered distance would have been 0 metres! This was an exceptional year in terms of sibling numbers, however this is a popular and successful school and forecasts for demand for primary school places for the area and discussions here show that we need more places. As you know, your local councillors have been in discussions with officers about primary school places in the area. Council Officers approached the Governors of Ivydale school to see whether the school would be interested to expand onto the Bredinghurst site, 5 minutes walk away. The Governors agreed to this proposal on Tuesday night, and parents of current pupils are to be written to shortly about this.

I believe this is all in an early stage of development. The current Bredinghurst site contains a number of Victorian buildings and from what I have heard, council officers are hoping to keep some of the buildings, particularly the largest building. Local ward councillors will be working with officers, the school and local residents to ensure we provide good facilities for the school and that there is good consultation with local residents. The Bredinghurst school site is in Peckham Rye Ward and I know that the increase of families with young children in the area means that there is a demand for these places.

This is all in early stages, but we will need to make sure that the two site plans are well thought through and enhance a popular and successful school.

Renata

[James Barber]

At last using the Bredinghurst site for primary school places.

We as Lib Dm councillors were discussing this with council officers in 2009/10 and it was the core of our plans for that corner of Southwark back then.

I'd hope that a whole new school is created there.

It always made more sense to move Bredinghurst Pupil Referral Unit to a much more central location - it serves all of Southwark and the pupils are ferried in via effectively minicabs.

So what are the plans for Bredinghurst School now?

So having only just announced Bredinghurst rebuild has completed - amuliti million pound sched it seems a shame the move didn't happen before the expensive rebuild which will largely be rebuilt over already under Renatas annonucement.

Not good planning or use of public money.

[Avani]

Bredinghurst school no longer exists. It has become Newlands school and occupies a new building on part of what was the Bredinghurst site. The proposed Ivydale school building will be on another part of the site.

[Fuschia]

I don't think the general public realise that under the current govt, local authorities can no longer build new schools. Hence the only solution is to expand an existing school on to a second site

Even then the land can be grabbed for a free school

No wonder sensible place planning no longer exists and the primary place crisis is escalating

[cl4db]

It's interesting to hear you say that the governors have agreed to this proposal.

This is not what the parents of the school have been told.

I for one would appreciate the true picture following this meeting.

[nunheadmum]

So James, are you saying the plan is to move the pupil referral unit and Ivydale then expands to use that building along with possibly other bits of the site? Or is it, as seemed to be the story so far, that the pupil referral unit stays in the newly built Newlands and Ivydale takes on the land released when Bredingshurst closed with some associated building work?

It would be good to hear a full honest account of what is being planned without political point scoring!

[Mugglesworth]

The governors at Ivydale have agreed to investigate the options for expanding to a four-form entry primary school, using the old Bredinghurst school site along with the present Ivydale site. The letter from the Head to parents makes this clear. These are very early days and planning has not extended beyond commitment to look into it further. With a target opening date of September 2016, I would not expect too much in the next few weeks.

[nunheadmum]

I know what came out in the letter from the Head. I was hoping James would clarify his comments above which implies something different from what came out in the letter.

"So having only just announced Bredinghurst rebuild has completed - amuliti million pound sched it seems a shame the move didn't happen before the expensive rebuild which will largely be rebuilt over already under Renatas annonucement."

Is this a misunderstanding on James' part or does it come from some knowledge that isn't otherwise in the public domain yet?

[Renata Hamvas]

Hello all,

To clarify:

Pupils moved from the old Bredinghurst buildings into the new built Newlands School in February; built under BSF. This left the old school site vacant. The new school buildings are certainly not to be demolished! As I state above this is in early developmental stages. The plans involve the site which has been vacated.

Renata

[FionaC]

I really don't like to get into rows on internet forums, but James, I do wish you'd check your facts before posting a load of nonsense on here.

In 2009/10 under the previous administration the plans for Bredinghurst (now Newlands) to have a new buildings on the other end of the site (on Rye Road) were well advanced and agreed (in PFI contracts!) and the remainder of the site was earmarked for disposal. Perhaps you are confusing Bredinghurst with Highshore or Tuke special schools.

Since then the new buildings for Bredinghurst/Newlands have been built and the school has moved in, vacating the other half of the site. It is this vacant site that we are now proposing for the expansion of Ivydale School. We're not proposing to move Newlands, no multimillion pound buildings will be rebuilt, no public money has been wasted.

At this stage the Head and governors have agreed in principle to the expansion of Ivydale and the head has written to parents. This will all be subject to much more detailed discussions, but with the end of term next week I don't expect this will get going till September.

Fiona

Cllr Fiona Colley

Nunhead Ward

Cabinet Member for Regeneration

[James Barber]

Hi FionaC,

I must admit I missed that subtlety. Sounds as though we screwed up by keeping Bredinghurst tucked away in a remote corner of Southwark when it serves all of Southwark and many of children are minicabbed in.

All the advice I've had, from several different sources, is to keep primary schools limited to 60-90 pupils per year group.

Expanding Ivydale doesn't sound ideal UNLESS the new school is a complete standalone new school federated to Ivydale. That's how other councils have for around the long term restriction started under Blair blocking councils from building new council schools.

Equally a couple of weeks ago David Laws while visiting ED was clear councils could now build new schools. Result.

Now back to my holiday.

[Galev]

There seems to be a discrepancy between what the Head of Ivydale is saying - 'The governing body agreed in principle to enter discussions with the local authority.' and what the council through Fiona Colley, is saying - 'At this stage the Head and governors have agreed in principle to the expansion of Ivydale'.

There is a world of difference between the two. Perhaps the school and council could clarify what the position actually is?

[OverTheRainbows]

This is great: on trying to follow this thread, my confidence in politicians (not particularly high to begin with) is diminishing by the second, and I'm still no clearer what's going on with the schools around here...

[FionaC]

I'm sorry if it seems unclear, coming on this forum was an attempt to be open about what is going on in terms of primary place planning in Nunhead. There certainly wasn't meant to be a "world of difference" between my post and the head's.

We have a need for places in the area, we have a site for places in the area, we would like Ivydale to provide the places on the site. The council has had some initial discussions with the head and governors which have been positive. There will be further discussions between the school and the council in September. Most tangibly the council has agreed it will find the money needed to provide the additional places on the site.

As Renata said in the opening post everything is at an early stage. I'm optimistic and actively seeking to do everything I can to ensure we get the extra places we need and to do it in a way that local parents are happy with.

[helenholden]

This is really interesting to hear as my children school in the borough of Lewisham and we were issued with a letter three days ago telling us that Kilmorie school will be expanding to a four form entry this september which is 120 new reception children. The schools super head Mark Wilson explained to me on friday they only found this out themselves last week - which i find very hard to believe and he said they had no choice in the matter.

Last year Kilmorie expanded to a three form entry (90 children) which my eldest daughter attended. i had my concerns but the school explained in open discussion and meetings with the parents showing plans of expansion and it all seemed possible (Kilmorie is a big site and lewisham council were using the site but they were leaving the site to make the whole site available for children).

Three of the schools that Mark wilson 'super heads' - Kilmorie, Fairlawn and Haseltine school are all bulging to make places available for the 269 children that didn't get a school space for this september.

But the issue does not lie with our schools they lie with our councils. Lewisham would have know 5 years ago that this was going to be an issue and continue to be one.

I think it's disgraceful that these people in council's can do this and think it's right to do this. Lewisham own enough land and property to build other schools and not pack kids into schools that don't have the capacity. These plans are just not thought out and our children's education and school experience will suffer greatly as a result. As parents we need to join forces and say we aren't excepting this and we will not vote those party's in that allow this to happen.

[OverTheRainbows]

Hi Helen - that's very interesting - watching all this as we'll be applying next year and we are trying to get a sense of what's going on. I was wondering how you know that 269 children didn't get places this year, and whether you know if there are particular black spots or whether the problem is spread across the borough? This information will exist, but whether it's publically available...?

As you say, it would seem that a bit of forecasting and planning taking residential distribution, birth rates, etc, into account could have alleviated these problems. I agree that the voice of parents (and children) needs better to be heard in all of this; the whole situation is horrendously stressful and potentially detrimental to children and families.

I remember about a decade ago working in Lambeth for a supplementary children's provider where several of our attendees were left in the position of having absolutely no (secondary) school to go to at the start of the school year. A temporary ad hoc solution (some teaching in a church hall / community centre or similar) was all that was provided. The behaviour of the children who had no school deteriorated and their younger siblings were scared that they too would have nowhere to go, and somehow thought that it was their fault (that there was some kind of selection going on). It was horribly disruptive to their development and wellbeing. I hope so much that things don't reach a similar point here.

[James Barber]

For a more recent update from Renata please see:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,1176370

post of 10:51am today 13/9.

[Renata Hamvas]

Overtherainbow, The above stats posted by helenholden are not for Southwark. Every on-time Southwark primary applicant was offered a place at a primary school.

The form that the expansion at Ivydale will take is being driven by Helen Ingham the Head and the governing body of the school. Helen, Cllr Fiona Colley, a council officer and I had a very positive meeting where the expansion was discussed.

Southwark do have a forward plan for primary places it's here, on page 30 of the document:

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/b6671/Supplemental%20Agenda%20No.%201%20Tuesday%2016-Jul-2013%2016.00%20Cabinet.pdf?T=9

Renata

[unlurked]

I thought James knew a govenor from Bredinghurst?

[ambereagle]

Does anyone have any info on what progress there has been in addressing the need for more primary places? Is the Ivydale School expansion the only viable solution on the table at present? Has there been any investigation into alternative solutions?

[RedHarmony]

This seems to have all gone very quiet...... However, with reference to previous posts which flag up how the Council are proceeding on the basis that this expansion is definite, whilst the school maintains it is still just a proposal. There was an article in Southwark Life recently that stated that the Council would be working with Ivydale to expand onto the old Bredinghurst site, but on the following page an interview with the Head Teacher of Ivydale referred to it as a potential expansion.

My view on these ongoing contradictions is that it will almost certainly go ahead. The school does not want to confirm this yet because of the likely opposition from parents; many who will not want a four form entry, for the school to be on split sites or simply do not think the school is in a position to be considering expansion when it has the more important job of ensuring it improves its current provision in the face of some significant parental concerns.

If there is an alternative to expansion on the Bredinghurst site, I would hope the Council have investigated this. It would seem unfortunate to be putting all your eggs in one basket only to find that plans do not come to fruition resulting in a lack of primary places. If they have investigated alternatives, it would be good to hear about this so the local community can make informed judgements and not be just presented with a 'done deal'.

[James Barber]

The council could alternatively use the Dulwich Hamlet new free school model planned for Bellenden Old School on Belleden Road.

Find an outstanding Southwark school and ask them to open a new free school on the spare land at Bredinghurst. This would also mean an extra circa ?5M from the government to pay for everything.

It means Ivydale would focus on improving the existing school rather than doubling it with the added complication of split sites.

But I fear the council administration would be concerned at losing face by changing its plan.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Ambereagle, Langbourne is being expanded from 1 to 2 form entry (3 mil investment), likewise Bessemer Grange from 2 to 3 forms. There are expansions elsewhere in the Borough too. A lot of thought has been put into how to best deal with the shortfall of primary places in the borough over the next few years. There is a detailed report that I have mentioned elsewhere on primary pupil planning discussed at the July Cabinet meeting. Ivydale is a successful and very popular school. It has been three form entry for the past two years. The use of a new site for such a school enables it to have facilites tailormade to the aspirations of the head, governing body, parents and pupils. I do believe that the expansion can enhance the feel of the school that current parents and pupils love. The split of pupil numbers between the sites means that the sites will have similar numbers of pupils to the current Ivydale site. Bellenden Old School site and the Bredinghurst site are different geographically and the council have looked at what would be best for local children in each. Yes, different approaches to these two sites, good ones I feel.

Renata

[LauraHW]

Wonder if this makes it more of less likely for Ivydale to bulge again this year?

[Renata Hamvas]

This afternoon Nunhead Ward Councillors, Fiona Colley and Sunil Chopra and Peckham Rye Councillors, Victoria Mills and I met with the Head of Ivydale, Helen Ingham and the Deputy Head, Judith Lambert. I'm delighted to confirm that Ivydale will be expanding onto the former Bredinghurst site on Stuart Road to form a four form entry primary, with the first four forms of entry being in 2016. The architects who will design the new buildings for the Stuart Road site are due to be appointed shortly. There will shortly follow consultation with the school, families and local community as we move into the next stage of the expansion process.

Renata

edited to change typos