Problem with BT installing fibre optic cable

[mayfly]

Has anyone had problems with BT installing a new fibre optic cable?

We have just had to renew our phone/ broadband contract with BT, and were told we would have to have a fibre optic cable installed. Two new hubs and two compatible phones were sent. (phones will cost us £100+).

No engineer turned up for the first appointment. BT wanted to charge £130 although we were here so have refused to pay.

An engineer (from Morrison) did turn up for the second appointment, but could not do the work. We had been assured that the old copper cable inside the house would not need changing, and it was just a question of putting a box on the outside and setting up the broadband and phones.

The engineer said this was not the case, and floorboards would need to come up beforehand in the lounge and hallway in order to run the new fibre optic cable to the middle room – complicated by the fact that this room has a concrete floor. 

The lounge is currently used to store a lot of stuff, carpeted with hardboard underneath. It will be a massive undertaking to sort things out due to mobility and health issues. BT don’t seem to realise the disruption involved.

They have been exceedingly rude, unhelpful and just want to set a new date which we can’t make as we don’t know how long it will take us to make ready for them. They cannot offer us any other contract and say that we must go through with it.

Do we have to do this? Any advice or your own experience relating to this would be greatly appreciated.

[George Orwell]

If it helps: We had a good experience with the installation of BT Fibre into the house. There is a plastic box on the wall outside into which the incoming cable runs. They then drilled a hole through our 225mm thick solid brick wall and fitted the final white plastic box (which needs a power supply) on the inside of the wall neatly covering the hole. Our own CAT5 cable runs to our own choice of positioning of the router.

As it happens, I ran my own cable under the floor myself before they arrived, but it can be clipped to the skirting board  if you want.

To save trouble, I'd do that and think about a neater wiring solution later at your own convenience,

Edited February 3 by George Orwell

[jazzer]

Is their a solicitor out there on the EDF who can advise you on where you stand. 

Contacts once agreed are legally binding, and get out clauses can be costly. 

Take a look at the sale of Goods Act (may include services) which is what BT are providing

Then take a look at these links

https://hallellis.co.uk/contract-law-basics-formation/

https://www.contractworks.com/blog/4-types-of-breach-of-contract-you-need-to-be-aware-of

Had a problem with my Broadband supplier increasing prices mid contract, they started to sit up and listen when quoted Contract Law back with specifics. I dealt direct with their Director of Telecoms and didn't bother with the minions in the office. Do a search of their Management/Director structure, then check Linkedin and communicate with the person direct, it's a ball breaker but well worth doing. 

And don't be fobbed off. 

 

 

Edited February 3 by jazzer

[Sally Eva]

I think part of the problem is that BT has all its work done by Openreach which is a separate company. One guy from BT explained to me that he had no special connection with OR and could only deal with their call centre in India which was as useful as we all know such call centres to be.

so the BT staff whom you talk to have no influence on the work.

[ck124]

This sounds painful. I’ve just moved into the area any looking for an internet provider with reliable customer service, that doesn’t cause such issues. Any recommendations out there?

[Jenijenjen]

Why is it not be possible to have a box installed on the front wall internally and externally and then make a wireless connection, perhaps with a booster, with the middle room as you were originally told? Admittedly my knowledge is very limited but I'm able to get a wireless connection from the box and router in the front room to my kitchen at the back. Replacing an underground cable seems unnecessary when wireless is available.

[Cyclemonkey]

Full fibre to the premises (FTTP) is completely separate from the old copper network so taking a FTTP comtract will involve running new cables in to your property.

However I am not sure why you have been told it has to go under your floorboards?  We had FTTP run in to our flat last year and the engineer just stapled the cable to our skirting board.  Fibre cables are much thinner than copper so you don't really notice them.  

 

 

[Spartacus]

Mayfly 

It sounds like you have a very specific requirement for where your router and phones go in the house. 

The problem is that you were lead to believe that the old phone set up in the house using copper cables would be usable which unfortunately isn't feasible. 

I get the issue you face and maybe the simplest solution is to get the box set up near the entry point for the optical cable and then look at how you can extend it internally afterwards. 

Obviously not the simple install process you hoped for and with the move away from copper cable to fibre we aren't being offered the ability to retain copper cable. 

Sorry can't offer a solution to the floors being lifted as that is specific to your layout but as others have said consider the option of cables attached to the skirting board or where appropriate change the skirting board where the cables are to run for one designed to hide cables under so that nothing is visible. 

Hope that helps.

 

[RichH]

One other thing to check is that, after fibre installation, BT doesn't double-bill you by charging you for the new connection and your old ADSL/copper connection (assuming that you don't wish to keep the latter active.)  Also be aware that, should you cease the old ADSL service, you may also lose other services associated with it, such as phone landline connections and email addresses.

Although my FTTP connection went fairly smoothly (despite some delays due to difficulties with the local topography) BT did get themselves into a bit of a pickle when it came to billing me the correct amount for the appropriate services.  Thankfully this was all sorted with a single phone call.

[mayfly]

It’s Mayfly here again.

 

It's Mayfly here again.

Thanks so much to you all for your advice and thoughts. It’s very helpful and so kind of you to respond. I think we are going to have to bite the bullet and get through this somehow. If we don’t have to take the house apart we’ll be so grateful.

The FO cable could come into the lounge, run along skirting boards, go through the wall, along skirting board, up and around lounge doorframe, along skirting, up and around middle room doorframe, through the wall to avoid concrete floor.

BT have sent us new router + Wifi booster + 2 FO compatible phones. 

Can anyone tell me if the router, booster and main phone (with voicemail) have to be connected to the computer and be in the same room? 

Could we do what Jenijenjen suggests, which is to have the router in the lounge, the booster in the middle room. As she says – it’s supposed to be wireless. We do have two electrical sockets very near where the FO cable would come into the lounge.

But what happens to the phones and where and what do they get plugged into?

Hoping you can enlighten us some more and apologies for ignorance.

Mayfly

[OutOfFocus]

I am waiting for Openreach to install the fiber to my house - my ISP (AAISP periodically chase them). 

My understating it the "ONT" box has a socket in which you can connect an old school phone. Meanwhile I have being playing with AAISPs VoIP offering. I have an 020-3 number I can divert eitther to my existing landline phone or my mobile which I find useful.

[George Orwell]

Mayfly, the actual fibre optic cable terminates in the Openreach box inside your house. The cable cannot have sharp bends in it - only gentle curves. You will have a copper cable with several strands ( Cat5 or Cat6) running from the Openreach termination box to the router. The phones plug into the router - you can have extension wires pretty much as long as you want.

[Cyclemonkey]

There should be something called an ATA port in the back of your router - that is where you plug your phone in. 

I think BT ATA ports even have a little picture of a phone next to them to help you.

[Penguin68]

As others have said, the Openreach fibre is carried to a terminating box on your outside wall (in my case) and linked to a second terminating box, with an Ethernet port inside your property (which must be powered). The Openreach engineer drilled through the wall to link the two boxes.

From the internal box I have run an Ethernet cable to my existing hub/ router - which gives me WiFi and a number of Ethernet ports. This Ethernet cable, not much larger than internal phone wiring (but less flexible, sharp right angled turns aren't really possible) can be happily run along skirting boards etc. The hub/ router also has an ATA port at the back into which I have plugged a single phone (with 5 slave phones) - each of the slaves has to be plugged into the mains (as does the master) and receives wireless signals from the master phone - which also offers answerphone capability (there is quite a wide choice of compatible phones on the market). As I already have a BT 'landline' that number was ported to my digital system. 

Most vaguely modern phones (those which require direct power) are capable of handling digital (packet switched) conversations. However, any old fashioned phones (exchange powered) will need to be junked.

The key data distribution point is the hub/ router - the in-house box installed by the Openreach Engineer is the equivalent only of the old 'Master socket' for copper landlines, although unlike that it cannot be exchange powered. The job of this box is to convert electrical signals to light signals to pass through the fibre network. 

Although there was a cock up initially in the installation (because it wasn't properly surveyed) I found both BT people and Openreach people quite helpful - which wasn't always true of the contractors Openreach employed to undertake external works. 

Obviously the neatest distribution would be under the floor (or through ceiling ducts) around the house, but mostly our telephone wires weren't distributed that way in any older house (say pre war, and probably most 1950s and 60s houses as well) - so Ethernet can follow the same route as your telephone wires.

Remember also once you have signal to your hub, you can use your home electric wiring (within any one circuit) to port data signals through your own electricity supply (with the right kit, not too expensive) without having to run more Ethernet cables. There is some signal loss, but hardly noticeable if you are moving from 70Mgb to a Gigabyte.

 

Edited February 5 by Penguin68

[mayfly]

It's Mayfly here again with an update.

On Monday Openreach installed the fibre optic cable into the lounge, set up the broadband box and plugged in the new Yealink  base station and it is wireless with a good signal. The engineers left the copper cable running from the telegraph pole to the house, so all was well. The BT engineer who Wass supposed to come too set up the broadband and phones never turned up.

Yesterday BT must have done the switchover and we were cut off with no broadband or landline! Thankfully our IT man was able to get the broadband up and running but not the phones.

The mobile signal is not good here so we need the landline. BT have told us it be a week before an engineer can come out.

The question is - do we need an engineer? - does anyone know how to set up these Yealink W73P phones?

Have looked on the web and none of it makes sense. Any thoughts or help would be much appreciated.

[Penguin68]

Your router should have a port on the back, along with the ethernet ports, which might be marked phone or just look slightly different, perhaps with a different coloured surround, and your phone should be able to plug into it. If you have a master phone with slaves plug the master phone in. All the phones will need to be mains powered, but they then should all work wirelessly with each other. Your land-line number should have been switched into your fibre set-up (it may take 24 to 48 hours for that to come through) - that will happen when your copper cable goes dead. 

[Pugwash]

We went over to digital- only 2 phones (cordless could be used the others we had to throw away). Phone which was in the hall is now in the room where the computer is, which means unless you are in that room you cannot hear it ring. The other phone is in the lounge. We need a phone in our bedroom and in the kitchen, whilst engineer was here he ordered with our consent, 2 cordless phones which we were told to expect on 24th December. Not very helpful engineer did not explain anything. When phones did not arrive - phoned up EE who had no record of the order.

WE now have to dial 1571 to get messages as not all get recorded on the Ansa phone for some reason.

[first mate]

I believe Openreach is a wholly owned BT subsidiary company, so the notion that BT workers can only contact OR via foreign call centres seems absurd. BT also now owns EE.

It was suggested to me that I could have a new BT contract and better internet speeds but when I pointed out that the wires into my home were copper and, I have been told by OR and BT, are unlikely to be replaced any time soon, it could not be explained to me quite how performance would improve. However fast the fibre signal to the cabinet is, it will degrade as it goes through the copper- at least that is my understanding.

 

[Penguin68]

Openreach is a wholly owned subsidiary of BT Group but is obliged under regulation to act even-handedly with BT UK and all other of its wholesale customers - that is that all companies supplying services through the Openreach local Network must be treated similarly - so BT Retail has no better, or hopefully worse, access to Openreach as does any other competing company.

Openreach has 'passed' much of East Dulwich with fibre to the premises (FTTP) capability. 

BT is rebranding all its Retail services to 'EE' (that is, services to private/ residential customers) and I believe to SMEs as well. It is keeping the BT brand as a marketing name for its Major Business business.

The maximum speed for FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) services is about 60-70MG to the household router - which is described I believe by some estate agents as superfast, curiously. The real FTTP services in ED are at the moment 500 or 1000MG to the router, and broadly achieve quite close to that, although speeds to the apparatus via WiFi are much less. To get actual benefit of the fibre speed you will need an ethernet network internally.

[OutOfFocus]

We have had our order indirectly with Openreach delayed twice , and now Openrech are claiming Southwark council has placed an order preventing digging.  I have raised this with Councillor McAsh. Has anyone else had anything similar (happy to share my address by PM)

 

[OutOfFocus]

Had a helpful reply from Southwark council, or at least moving in right direction. 

I think there is a game of "blame ping pong" between openreach and council.  Anyone else having issues.

[Rockets]

We had no issues with the digging - just major issues getting Openreach to send the right team for the dig! Can you shed any more light on the blame game ping pong?

[Sue]

I have an Openreach person installing fibre in my house at the moment. 

Having turned up three hours early with no warning, he has been far from helpful. 

He told me I couldn't have the router where it is at the moment because he would have to move furniture. Not heavy furniture. Nothing I couldn't move myself.

Said he could not lift floorboards.

So I am ending up with a router at one end of a quite long house, instead of in the middle, with a WiFi extender somewhere, who knows where (I presently have one in the hall).

If I don't get a good signal in all parts of my house, I shan't be happy 🙄

Edited April 11 by Sue

[Penguin68]

You can always run an ethernet cable yourself, or get someone to do it for you, from the fibre box that will have been installed to wherever you want your router. Run it under carpet etc. An 18 metre cable for instance would cost about £36. 

[malumbu]

I reluctantly switched back to BT, still upset by their noncompetitive rates when we were on old school analogue and my issues about privitising national utilities harking back to the time when GPO/British Telecom were world leaders.  However....  installation of fibre, and switching over was excellent and transformational for remote working and streaming compared to my former provider (TalkTalk).  Customer service is excellent.  I've generally no issues with overseas call centres and have a reputation of telling people in Dehli and Bangalore (as was) about my adventures there and cricket, but TalkTalk used a Philippines call centre where English was spoken with an annoying American twang.

Whinges are:  The above inflation increase each year, the push to move to EE (I'm perfectly content with the service but will be forced this way to get a cheaper deal, but would lose free roaming currently received with BT mobile), what I see has a relatively soft touch in cracking their security controls (I had my BT mobile phone transferred by a fraudster), the cost of maintaining a land line (we stopped that)  and when we had an issue with out old digital line the threat that Open Reach would charge us to examine this.

They did update my speed at the same cost when I said that I would not move to EE, and I'm getting over 50 download and 40 upload from my PC, three metres and a ceiling above the router, and about two thirds at the back of the house on the mobile.

I see they offer guaranteed speeds https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/what-is-bt-s-stay-fast-guarantee-

Maybe Community Fibre, Virgin and the like are better, but generally good enough for me

Separately I would like advice on removing redundant satellite dishes at a family members home - see my thread on the Lounge