Mugging in Gallery Rd last night.

[JohnL]

It's not the money - but being treated like a fool that

annoys those that get annoyed (your type A angry type).

I think the little scrotes can tell when someone is fiery

though and go for the placid type (your type b, happy type).

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Possessions are easily replaced. I would not want

> to lose a family member or friend over any

> material possession, and it can happen from

> situations that initially seem unthreatening. The

> boys did the right thing - let the police do their

> job.

>

> Are phones of any value once switched off

> remotely?

[mashcov]

ok so those three came and ask for 6 girlfriends from those six boys.

so now what the six boys will do? protect their girls or hand them over to those three, for the sake of protecting their teeth and bones, or fight.

your phone or your girlfriend , fight them off , dont give up, as if you give an inch they take a mile.

[KidKruger]

Kidnap is slightly different than asking for a phone.

[mlteenie]

Er... Thanks for that interesting analogy, mashcov

[Kate08]

Do boys own their girlfriends? Are these also provided by the parents and therefore not valued as a "possession" by the boys?

Very strange comparison.

I think handing the phones over was the most sensible and mature thing to do. Trying to prove they are "real men" by fighting would have been reckless, there is no need to risk your own safety or that of your friends to make some macho point. Much better to be sufficiently comfortable about who you are to not need to take unnecessary risks.

[JohnL]

Pre knives and guns it used to be the case you made friends through a brief fight

Kate08 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Do boys own their girlfriends? Are these also

> provided by the parents and therefore not valued

> as a "possession" by the boys?

>

> Very strange comparison.

>

> I think handing the phones over was the most

> sensible and mature thing to do. Trying to prove

> they are "real men" by fighting would have been

> reckless, there is no need to risk your own safety

> or that of your friends to make some macho point.

> Much better to be sufficiently comfortable about

> who you are to not need to take unnecessary risks.

[KidKruger]

"Pre knives and guns it used to be the case you made friends through a brief fight"

ha ! yes true, one of my longest-standing friends was through a long overdue fight (2-3 years, we were from opposing schools, passing each other every morning/evening on the way to/from school, with cusses and snarls).

Immediately after the fight we were best mates - top result ! Really weird how that used to work.

Not sure it was 'pre-knives' though, there's always been knives.

[Asset]

"Pre knives and guns it used to be the case you made friends through a brief fight "

I would say that's a slightly different issue - all the ball sniffing and circling that unreconstructed males have to do to get to know each other - not quite the same as being mugged. Not sure the 3 muggers were looking for friendship but you never know I guess....

[polla2256]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Pre knives and guns it used to be the case you

> made friends through a brief fight"

>

> ha ! yes true, one of my longest-standing friends

> was through a long overdue fight (2-3 years, we

> were from opposing schools, passing each other

> every morning/evening on the way to/from school,

> with cusses and snarls).

>

> Immediately after the fight we were best mates -

> top result ! Really weird how that used to work.

> Not sure it was 'pre-knives' though, there's

> always been knives.

Didnt know this was so prevelant met one of my best mates with a headbut. He was trying to bully me but ended up KO'd (didnt fare too well myself mind. Never felt I needed a weapon though, or a mobile for that matter.

[Grotty]

The boys did the right thing. Maybe they are easy targets but they were sensible and got away with no injury. I spent a whole shift last weekend with a stab victim who was stabbed for fighting back. He is young and currently fighting for his life. Give your phone up without a fight. Its a no brainer.

[Santerme]

polla2256 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Please dont take this the wrong way as each person

> is different and todays society seems somewhat

> softer but take your son to martial arts or

> boxing.

>

> Theres nothing wrong with the controled aggresion.

> Also an idiot with a knife is an easy opponent if

> you know how to disarm and disble them. I agree

> with the take on the law of the jungle but

> remember you need to know how to defend yourself

> with skill and thought rather than windmilling and

> throwing breeze blocks.

>

> At 6 on 3 In my teens Id have them running to

> their mummies minus shoes and pants complete with

> broken noses.

I spent 23 years in the army, most of it attached to front line units and I am airborne qualified, also have passed through the US Army Ranger school...my brother is a twenty five year veteran of the Royal Marines Commando...

About four or five years ago we intervened in Leicester Sq when three youths were assaulting a girl.

I ended up with a substantial slash wound which required hospital attention and my brother with 12 stitches in a similar wound.

For a phone, just let the buggers have it.

[lorraine34cat]

This you will find is fairly regular. My son and two of his friends were attacked by youths on bikes and wearing hoodies along gallery road last year. They attempted to take there phones. My son and his mates were rugby boys and stood there ground. However one of the youths flashed a knife so they all decided to run instead. My son was also mugged when he was 11yrs old when wearing his public school uniform when getting the bus back from foresthill train station. Dragged by two youths into an alley. They took his phone. It was a cheap 10 pound phone and they still took it. Police never found any of the culprits which is extremely frustrating as it just leads to these youths thinking they are invincible.

[kirsun]

In the days I was a kid a fight was a fight, but nowadays you never know what these guys are carrying.

Financial loss is better and loss of life.

My son was with his friends in the Village on a Sunday afternoon with his friends on bikes. A few kids came up to them demanding they hand over their bikes.

My son said no and handed them the ?1.50 he had in loose change, while they were counting the money my son and his friends made a hasty retreat.

[Sue]

kirsun Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My son said no and handed them the ?1.50 he had in

> loose change, while they were counting the money

> my son and his friends made a hasty retreat.

xxxxxx

Good for them!

[Penguin68]

My daughter was mugged for her phone a few years ago in ED - it was in a poor condition- the back had been lost and the battery was held in by gaffer tape - the mugger handed it back and advised her to get her dad to buy her a new one - advice I chose not to take!

[Sue]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My daughter was mugged for her phone a few years

> ago in ED - it was in a poor condition- the back

> had been lost and the battery was held in by

> gaffer tape - the mugger handed it back and

> advised her to get her dad to buy her a new one -

> advice I chose not to take!

xxxxxx

:))

[Earl Aelfheah]

Firstly, the boys did the right thing handing over their phones IMO.

Secondly - I don?t get the need for young children to be carrying phones around with them ? which seems to be coming the norm (may not apply here as it sounds like the boys were older).

We didn?t regularly get held up at knife point ?in my day? (a, long, long time ago!), but then we weren?t all carrying around several hundred pounds worth of easily pinchable kit everywhere. Schools should have a blanket ban on phones being brought onto their premises and parents should be encouraged not to give their children mobile phones IMO - It makes all kids the targets of amoral little tea leaves.

That?s not to excuse the ruthless behaviour on those who?d steal from others, or to blame the victims. Never the less, I cringe when I see young kids casually flashing about an iPhones.

[drumbeg]

kirsun Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My son was with his friends in the Village on a

> Sunday afternoon with his friends on bikes. A few

> kids came up to them demanding they hand over

> their bikes.

>

> My son said no and handed them the ?1.50 he had in

> loose change, while they were counting the money

> my son and his friends made a hasty retreat.

Smart kids!

[tarafitness]

Sorry to hear about your son's mugging :-(

My son was mugged twice in the two years we lived in Herne Hill. The first was by an opportunist school boy who asked him for the time. As my son was too lazy to wear a watch at that point he relied on his mobile, got it out to check, and the boy asked to see his phone. Son was naive at that point so handed it over and the boy scarpered... no harm done, phone cost about ?20 anyway! He's worn a watch ever since.

The second time was more traumatic. Again he was coming home from school (clearly in his school uniform) when he was approached by a man who put a knife up to his throat and demanded his phone. My son handed it over but protested about how battered it was anyway but the guy told him to shut up or he'd stab him (nice). The phone in question cost even less than the first and was completely wrecked... obviously the (very little) money that it would have fetched from resale was worth it to him?!

We've been in ED for over 3 years without incident but that's not to say that I think it might not happen... still, my son (now 17) still owns a 'crappy' phone (much to his displeasure!), I think it cost ?30, I've refused to buy him a more expensive one, it's just not worth it!

One other thing I'd like to say is that there is a very good self-defence/martial arts class that is run locally. They've broken up for early summer but should be starting back in August. My son has been attending for a few months and is a lot stronger and fitter than ever before.

Obviously the rule "just hand it over" still applies for any mugging, but I feel a lot happier and more confident that he'd be able to handle himself a lot better should any situation turn physical.

If you want to find out more about the classes, here's their website: http://www.urbanfitandfearless.com/ first session is free and you can bulk buy sessions to make it even cheaper.

[JohnL]

Whilst doing Karate a few of the instructors were into Krav Maga and Kapap

Wouldn't say it was a shrinking violet of a martial art :)

[tarafitness]

It's definitely more of a defensive martial art, but aggressive and true to real-life situations than say Aikido.

There have tended to be far more women/girls in the class than guys... possibly one of the reasons my son's so fond of the class? ;-)

[KidKruger]

It's extremely dangerous to assume any increased ability in being able handle oneself 'better' on account of a few months training in any martial art or self defence, such a conclusion after even 2-3 years of training is arguably still tenuous.

It depends on what the training has been, how comfortable it was, the aptitude of the student, the situation when it arises, the ability of the opponent to endure pain, etc. etc.

Self defence classes are like classes in how to fly, almost entirely theoretical, apart from techniques to defuse / get out of the situation.

If you can take fitness, well-being and confidence from the classes, great. But don't assume any more than that unless you've been through altercations that validated your skills. As *Bob* said earlier above, or on another thread, unfortunately the only way to get experienced at fighting is to be in fights.

[Jeremy]

I dunno, I think practical martial arts tuition should certainly be beneficial if you're attacked on a one-on-one basis, and you train dilligently. But it's a last resort, and of course no guarantee of fighting off an assailant. And you've still got little to no chance when faced with someone with a knife - who is prepared to use it.

[El Pibe]

Exactly, I remember the interview with a highly respected martial artist in the US, his name will come to me, who said faced with multiple opponenets or a weapon the only viable thing to do is run or cooperate depending on the circumstance.

[tarafitness]

KidKruger, the classes my son attends are far from theoretical as they deal with real-life situations (grabbing, strangling, pinning down, etc). The emphasis is always on how to get out of a situation and run away, that's the main thing that's taught, there is no 'fighting back' or learning how to do a roundhouse kick.

So are you suggesting that my son doesn't take these classes which are making him stronger, faster and more likely to be able to get out of a dangerous situation? None of this has changed the fact that he'd still hand his phone/wallet over if challenged, it just means that if someone came up behind him and took him by surprise then hopefully his instinct, strength and muscle memory from repetitive exercises aimed at safely getting out of a situation would assist in him not getting seriously hurt or worse.

Sorry, but your argument sounds similar to someone who'd say you shouldn't exercise to be healthy as you might die from cancer anyway...