Beware: Parking inspectors everywhere

[Rockets]

44 minutes ago, Penguin68 said:

No, it's not about controlling roads, save in their guise as a profit stream, it's about generating revenue. The outsourced wardens are incentivised based not on some measure of 'controlled roads' but on revenues (fines) generated. One is not a true proxy of the other when the roads (as was demonstrated in the case of the  southernmost wards in Southwark) had no need of 'control'. 

And now watch for a load of people getting erroneous fines as the flocks of wardens try to meet their targets by ticketing anyone and everyone-and the appeals process is a nightmare for anyone who has been wrongly ticketed. The council always says that wardens don't get paid per ticket but they have to be on some sort of incentive else why would they bother.....I would love to know how the council structure the agreement with APCOA.

[malumbu]

A tad predictable Rocks and Penguin, Southwark - gnashing of teeth.

And for balance I am going to be similarly predictable - people doing their job, if you don't break rules you don't get fined.

But back to my previous comment, it's as if enforcement officers come from the planet Zogg, rather than have families to look after, food to put on the table, rent and mortgages to pay, television to watch etc etc.  From some of the threads on this forum it gets a little to close to hate crime, accusations of incompetence, greed and bias.  Fortunately not like that toxic site Nextdoor.com

To broaden the subject, is it right that we do warn others?  Surely most of the time it's people's own fault that they get caught.  I don't have much sympathy.  I understand that the powers that be don't want to alienate the masses, and it is frustrating where there are people who don't give a fig such as those parking on the zig zags on Forest Hill Road when they pop into the Turkish supermarket where there is no enforcement.

Decades ago the local scout district commissioner got prosecuted when parked, flashing their headlights at cars coming in the opposite direction to warn of a speed trap.  Along the lines of interfering in police business.  Some would say a hero of the people.  I've driven in the past and wondered why motorists were flashing at me and then realised a speed trap was approaching.  Not that it would be practical for the police to arrest 1000s or 10,000 of motorists who did this.  Nor do I speed anymore, so more fool me.  I expect that generally includes cycling but not sure how fast I go down Underhill on a rare clear day.

Speeding is of course criminal, whilst we are talking civil so warning others it is not, at least legally, in the same ball park.  But morally??  A sign from the authorities saying that enforcement officers are working in this (and all) areas may be appropriate.  One example of nudge is when you are on an average speed part of the motorway when signs are up saying x 1000 motorists have been prosecuted here in the last Y months.

Again, this forum is not like Nextdoor, which goes beyond warning people, to actively encouraging criminal behaviour re LTNs, ULEZ and speed traps.  I don't see Sunak taking on these core voters. 

 

[Rockets]

20 minutes ago, malumbu said:

A tad predictable Rocks and Penguin, Southwark - gnashing of teeth.

How is it in whichever borough you happen to live in.....perhaps if you don't like it, maybe find a forum closer to home (#Insert joke on whether home is London or second-home in France) 😉 ?

Bottom-line remains (and trying to keep this on track as Malumbu you seem to be trying to distract and divert the thread....AGAIN - you really should get an award for being the Threadkiller in Chief) Southwark seems more interested in spending £11m of our money (Southwark residents) on getting a company to massively increase the number of parking enforcement officers to raise more revenue from fining their own constituents - if you think that's acceptable or at all palatable when the council bleats on endlessly about a lack of funding/austerity etc then good for you but it seems utterly reprehensible to me - £11m...just let that sink in - that's the same as nearly 3,500 annual council tax bills for Band H houses in Southwark......it seems budget issues don't apply when it comes to raising even more money from people going about their business in Southwark.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

6 hours ago, Penguin68 said:

You are, of course, right that there is such a thing as dangerous parking (and indeed inconsiderate parking) - but these wardens are not engaged to deal with this -

This is, again, complete cobblers. If you park on double yellow lines or zigzags or stuck out in the middle of a road or any other stupid dangerous place - the council will ticket you if they see you.

It's a weird conspiracy theory to say "enforcement of road laws is only about revenue raising BUT ALSO the council doesn't want revenue from some road offences BUT ALSO it's too expensive to raise all this revenue". These three things can't all be true simultaneously.

5 hours ago, alice said:

Is partly because parents ‘ just dropped off their children outside school’  that we had this massively expensive camera set up. 

It's lazy bloody parents driving to schools and parking on double yellows and zigzags that makes things slow and dangerous for everyone else's kids!

[first mate]

14 hours ago, Rockets said:

And now watch for a load of people getting erroneous fines as the flocks of wardens try to meet their targets by ticketing anyone and everyone-and the appeals process is a nightmare for anyone who has been wrongly ticketed. The council always says that wardens don't get paid per ticket but they have to be on some sort of incentive else why would they bother.....I would love to know how the council structure the agreement with APCOA.

Is there any way to find out what deal is? Or , will the council hide behind protection of commercial agreements, as they are doing with Gala and Peckham Rye (making local green parkland an events space for hire)?

[Spartacus]

Parking enforcement  has always been contentious 

http://www.ukparking.info/front-page/2/a-history-of-parking-enforcement

The first ever parking ticket was issued to a doctor attending a heart attack and was overturned due to public opinion.

Personally, I think the 1991 change to allow local authorities to enforcement and keep revenue was the start of the issues when it became about revenue and not enforcement.

Maybe we need to go back to the old days of a separate police controlled parking warden system and remove councils from the equation.

[malumbu]

Seems a bit naive, revenue is important to whatever authority enforces.  And if everyone behaved themselves then you wouldn't get any revenue.

Until this car lover came to power (Sunak) the general political interest was the private enforcers, some of whom seemed very unaccountable.  It was in one of the Tory manifestos.  Fortunately Sunak's appeasement to the poor motorist (gets out a small violin) hasn't had much of an impact in the polls.  Thank heavens he is pretty useless (IMHO) otherwise it could be the sort of issue to swing things.  All the die hard petrol heads will no doubt vote Reform in any case - nice link here https://road.cc/content/forum/reform-party-and-uks-lurch-towards-fascism-303603

Rocks, as a Christmas treat why don't you engage with one of my broader issues?  Difficult to have a debate when there is so much tunnel vision on this forum. 

[tiddles]

Recently had a word with 2 wardens each ticketing cars displaying a blue badge…. They both sauntered off after. It is about churning out as many tickets as possible  - valid or not. It really annoys me that the council is playing this continuous game of trying to catch us out- to fill the coffers. They keep claiming poverty but then unsettle yet more consultations re preparing for new road layouts which then cause chaos, which necessitate another consultation to discuss how to improve it. I’m wondering how many councillors have shares in Conway……

[malumbu]

Nice, defamation of character now.  Nothing like a good conspiracy theory.  I suggest you write to councillors with your accusation.  Well I'm amused anyway 😂

[Spartacus]

4 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Nice, defamation of character now.  Nothing like a good conspiracy theory.  I suggest you write to councillors with your accusation.  Well I'm amused anyway 😂

Are you laughing at the truth Mal 

Shame on you 

[first mate]

Well, Mal can afford to laugh since these are not their councillors or the area in which they live.

[AylwardS]

 

This will run and run. A point of view in favour. 

There will always be some CEOs who issue tickets not due but generally they are doing a job and if the car wasn’t where it shouldn’t be no ticket would be issued. 

Yes there are more enforcement officers around but there are also more drivers taking a chance. Without enforcement that space you want might be taken by someone who shouldn’t be there. Unless you have a totally different experience when you drive I’ll bet more times than not you’ve come to a junction and not had clear sight lines because of someone parked at the junction, maybe even on double yellow lines. Next time you see an enforcement officer remember: 

• They are doing a job - they need to eat, have a family to feed
• If no one took a chance they’d issue few tickets
• If they weren’t there the selfish would park where they want - we’ve all seen examples
• The person who was going to take a chance and doesn’t leaves the space for someone else - a resident, someone with something heavy to carry ….

 

You may not agree with the rules but if you know what they are heed them. As long as we have cars we’ll need enforcement just as we will need plumbers as long as we have plumbing and I don’t think either is going away. 

As for this being a money making scheme council’s, by law, must use any surplus generated for specified purposes and the report to Cabinet in January 2020 recommending the award said they would continue to use the British Parking Association Model Contract. No details of Southwark’s contract but the general focus of that contract is quality not financial. Just as bad news is reported more than good, parking enforcement is for money. 

Some post on here to “warn” people. Is it a warning or a reminder that it’s wrong to park there/like that?

Would you want to be outside all day in all weathers facing abuse for the London Living Wage? That’s in the contract. 

[first mate]

11 hours ago, tiddles said:

Recently had a word with 2 wardens each ticketing cars displaying a blue badge…. They both sauntered off after. It is about churning out as many tickets as possible  - valid or not. It really annoys me that the council is playing this continuous game of trying to catch us out- to fill the coffers. They keep claiming poverty but then unsettle yet more consultations re preparing for new road layouts which then cause chaos, which necessitate another consultation to discuss how to improve it. I’m wondering how many councillors have shares in Conway……

What was the rationale for ticketing blue badge holders? Was this in Dulwich. Village?

[snowy]

Because having a Blue Badge doesn't mean you can park wherever you like whenever you like. There are still timing & location restrictions etc. 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

16 hours ago, tiddles said:

I’m wondering how many councillors have shares in Conway……

FM Conway is 50% owned by Aecom, a massive publicly-traded US company, and 50% by the Conway family. 

[first mate]

It would be interesting to know where the blue badge holders were parked and whether it was  especially inappropriate, dangerous, or likely to cause some other sort of issue? I find it odd that, for instance, one can leave Lime Bikes pretty much anywhere, including on their sides smack in the middle of a pavement, and causing an obstruction, with no comeback whatsoever, but a blue badge holder will be ticketed for parking on the street?

Edited December 22, 2023 by first mate

[malumbu]

Spartacus, I'm laughing due to the absurdness of some of the posts. 

I've just gone down a bit of a warren hole looking at articles that vilify our traffic wardens, some dark places including the Daily Mail that I will not share.   But I found something more positive - government advice on the skills and experience needed to become a civil enforcement officer:

• the ability to work on your own
• to be flexible and open to change
• the ability to understand people’s reactions
• patience and the ability to remain calm in stressful situations
• to be thorough and pay attention to detail
• excellent verbal communication skills
• knowledge of public safety and security
• legal knowledge including court procedures and government regulations
• to be able to carry out basic tasks on a computer or hand-held device

I also came across a town where they are even more extreme in enforcing traffic regulations, Fulchester - better known for the talking fish that plays goalkeeper for the local team. Happy Xmas all,

[first mate]

Ahh. Nice bit of deflection Malumbu.

Perhaps you also find it absurd that you can cause obstructions to those less able bodied by dumping hire bikes all over the place, without a care, while a blue badge holder may be pursued and fined for parking on the street. 

Merry Christmas to you too.

[Rockets]

Quite a few wardens circling on mopeds this afternoon, no doubt in the hope of bringing some Christmas cheer to those trying to help the independent businesses on Lordship Lane.....

Cllr McAsh and his crew must be overjoyed!

[first mate]

Surely the wardens should be in the forefront of serving council greenwashing orthodoxy and all be on foot, or at the very least bicycles? Wonder what the cost of the mopeds is?

[Spartacus]

Breaking news 

Santa's sleigh has just been ticketed outside M&S on Lordship Lane 🫣