Should cyclists have the same speed restrictions as motor vehicles?

[Earl Aelfheah]

This makes no sense. Why would regulation of e-bikes have to include push bikes?

I don’t agree that you can’t separate control of illegal electric motorbikes from pedal assist e-bikes either.

There has been almost no effort to stop the sale of illegal electric motorbikes in the UK, or to force registration / licensing at point of sale.

Edited 2 hours ago by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

I think we are discussing two different things; the first is enforcing legislation for dangerous/ careless cycling behaviour (already agreed and discussed); the second to apply 20mph locally (bye laws)  to all bicycles whether e-bike or not, with much stiffer penalties for anything pulled over for exceeding 20mph in a spot check, and subsequently found to be an illegally souped up e-bike.

You are also talking about halting sale of illegal e-bikes at source? I believe the issue is that when sold they come with limiters and are therefore legal, only afterwards are they altered/retro-fitted. I think this was all addressed in a Panorama on e-bikes.

[Earl Aelfheah]

8 minutes ago, first mate said:

I think we are discussing two different things; the first is enforcing legislation for dangerous/ careless cycling behaviour (already agreed and discussed); the second to apply 20mph locally (bye laws)  to all bicycles whether e-bike or not, with much stiffer penalties for anything pulled over for exceeding 20mph in a spot check, and subsequently found to be an illegally souped up e-bike.

You are also talking about halting sale of illegal e-bikes at source? I believe the issue is that when sold they come with limiters and are therefore legal, only afterwards are they altered/retro-fitted. I think this was all addressed in a Panorama on e-bikes.

We shouldn’t be allowing the sale of mod kits. And electric motorbikes, sold with a throttle, should be registered and licenced at point of sale. This is a whole other topic, which probably merits its own thread, but I don’t think it’s helpful to conflate motorbikes and push bikes.

Edited 1 hour ago by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

Love that you call them electric motorbikes. Come on Earl, some look like legal e-bikes, that is the point isn't it? It is a very slippery slope.

A whole can of worms is being opened up by the advent of the e-bike and we need to wake up and address growing issues before it is too late.

Legislating against mod kits is super tricky and it may be easier to adopt my route. I am open to persuasion though.

[Earl Aelfheah]

38 minutes ago, first mate said:

Glad you agree there is a difference in cycling culture over here. I think we all know the reasons why that may

Yes, The Netherlands have of pursued radical policies over decades to increase cycling and to remove motor traffic from many areas (not without opposition). The types of interventions which we are only seriously starting to implement here now, like segregated bike lanes, pedestrianisation, road filters etc. 

4 minutes ago, first mate said:

Love that you call them electric motorbikes

A bike which is has a throttle and is powered by a motor is a motorbike. It is not the same as a pedal assist e-bike.

Edited 1 hour ago by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

Unfortunately, time is not on our side. The e-bike has landed and is creating all sorts of issues that might not have occurred if we only had push bikes heading the UK cycling revolution.

[Earl Aelfheah]

But it is not helpful to conflate legal, pedal assist e-bikes and illegal, unregistered electric motorbikes.

They are different issues.

It is definitely nit helpful to bundle them in with push bikes.

Edited 1 hour ago by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

Just to make the point that the water is very muddied read this review on the range of e-bikes on offer https://e-bikereview.uk/how-fast/

Seems even pedal assist can be tweaked up. Nowhere are any of these described as electric scooters or motorbikes. Perception is all.

[Earl Aelfheah]

12 minutes ago, first mate said:

Legislating against mod kits is super tricky

Tbf this may not be the answer specifically. I just don’t think it’s that difficult to pull over electric motorbikes which are clearly being driven using a throttle and which are already illegal. They should be confiscated and those riding them fined. 

Same goes for pedal assist where they’re clearly travelling at speeds in excess of 15.5 mph / have been modified. Police can pull people over and confiscate them. I don’t see how it’s a case of additional laws helping, when we’re not remotely using the powers that already exist / enforcing current regulations.

[first mate]

Think it is about clarity. I disagree it is really easy to distinguish between all the types of bike. The only way to do that would be to run stops on different e-bikes to check them out. Surely, if you are going to run stops it makes sense to do them for cycling behaviour that presents a risk, rather than checking technology? Moreover, if you are prepared to have cyclists pulled over for travelling in excess of 15.5mph, why not 20mph, surely all the same caveats apply?

[Earl Aelfheah]

35 minutes ago, first mate said:

if you are prepared to have cyclists pulled over for travelling in excess of 15.5mph, why not 20mph, surely all the same caveats apply?

Where there is reasonable suspicion that an e-bike has been modified / is illegal, one should attempt to enforce the law (I don't think this is a controversial view).

35 minutes ago, first mate said:

Think it is about clarity. I disagree it is really easy to distinguish between all the types of bike

Really? I think it's pretty easy to spot a throttle operated bike with an electric motor, travelling at speed, without anyone pedalling. It's very easy to distinguish between these e-powered motorbikes and a push bike.  

For example. If I were a police officer and saw this, travelling at high speed, I might reasonably pull it over, and would likely impound it:

I don't believe I would think - "that might be a push bike, or a legal pedal assist bike, I am powerless to make any enquiries"

Edited 1 minute ago by Earl Aelfheah